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Author Topic: Mooji, on Love (Without Attachment)  (Read 3778 times)
Alan
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« on: May 26, 2013, 10:03:49 AM »

I know that not everybody likes Mooji, but I saw this video and thought of a few people who might benefit.

If you don't like Mooji, I understand.  But to me this guy makes sense to me, so I wonder if anybody else might want to hear from him.  My wife likes Mooji; seems she understands him better than me at times.  Grin

Here's a video that's under six minutes long on: Love (Without Attachment). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxNACKwl7R0

He is not Catholic.  I don't know what his religion is exactly, but I think he talks in language that doesn't depend too much on a church's teachings.  Some people don't want to hear anything that might even have a hint of "sounding eastern," so I'm just providing warning.  Wink

Alan
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 10:35:38 AM »

Love without attachment, eh? I've a feeling I'd better check Mooji out   Grin
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Alan
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 01:59:05 PM »

I've been listening to more Mooji and getting a little better picture of what he's talking about I think.

It's a lot about self-identity.  Knowing who you are.  It can seem pretty complicated but once a person gets there is just seems silly.

Have you ever seen a person experience what they call "enlightenment?"  I've heard the most reliable sign is if they break out laughing.  It's kind of like a joke you've always had explained but finally "get" it.  Yesterday I was watching a really long Mooji thing, and near the end there is a girl who "gets it."  

This is a long video, but the part I'm talking about is near the end, at around 2:31:30 to 2:33:30.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RLGOIk0KMY

I like what Deepak Chopra wrote once:  "Religion is believing in someone else's experience.  Spirituality is having your own experience."

Lana has taught me about the difference between analyzing someone else's experience (e.g. Jesus) and having our own friendship with Him by tarrying with Him.  She uses the term "tarry" in reference to spending time with Jesus.  This differs from studying and talking about Him.

Alan
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 06:01:16 AM »

I must confess that I found Mooji's answers a little too wordy. Then again, I had great difficulty following the 'Sex and Christianity' talk you posted on another thread, Alan. I fear my deep depression has left me unable to follow arguments properly. I have great difficulty reading books too  Embarrassed

What I did manage to take from Mooji though is that once you truly know yourself - who you are and what you want from life - then you can love without attachment. Which is true, in my experience of the matter Smiley
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Alan
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 06:25:19 AM »

I must confess that I found Mooji's answers a little too wordy. Then again, I had great difficulty following the 'Sex and Christianity' talk you posted on another thread, Alan. I fear my deep depression has left me unable to follow arguments properly. I have great difficulty reading books too  Embarrassed

What I did manage to take from Mooji though is that once you truly know yourself - who you are and what you want from life - then you can love without attachment. Which is true, in my experience of the matter Smiley

That's OK if you don't understand him, or Watts for that matter; they are speaking from a very different point of view than any I've learned from about any western source.  I'm glad you did get that out of Mooji.  I'd guess that if you listened to more Watts, he would begin to make more sense.  When I first heard him, he explained things in ways so different than I'd heard before it changed the way I looked at many things.  I'm sure to post more of their works.  They aren't all lengthy and scholarly, but after a while it gets easier to listen to him for longer periods.

Here's another way to tiptoe into Watts philosophy.  Watts's family worked with South Park animators on some short videos.  Here's one less than 3 minutes that I think is pretty straightforward:

Music and Life -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

I'm kind of pushing Watts because there are huge benefits I got from learning completely different ways of view than I've heard just about anywhere else.  After listening to many hours of him, it made many eastern things make sense to me, that would have gone right over my head otherwise.  You can learn these things over a period of time; it took several years for me for it to really sink in.  It isn't required to learn eastern thought, but for me it helps explain certain things to me to help make sense of the world.

Alan
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Justicia et Pax
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013, 06:34:08 AM »

I must confess that I found Mooji's answers a little too wordy. Then again, I had great difficulty following the 'Sex and Christianity' talk you posted on another thread, Alan. I fear my deep depression has left me unable to follow arguments properly. I have great difficulty reading books too  Embarrassed

What I did manage to take from Mooji though is that once you truly know yourself - who you are and what you want from life - then you can love without attachment. Which is true, in my experience of the matter Smiley

That's OK if you don't understand him, or Watts for that matter; they are speaking from a very different point of view than any I've learned from about any western source.  I'm glad you did get that out of Mooji.  I'd guess that if you listened to more Watts, he would begin to make more sense.  When I first heard him, he explained things in ways so different than I'd heard before it changed the way I looked at many things.  I'm sure to post more of their works.  They aren't all lengthy and scholarly, but after a while it gets easier to listen to him for longer periods.

Here's another way to tiptoe into Watts philosophy.  Watts's family worked with South Park animators on some short videos.  Here's one less than 3 minutes that I think is pretty straightforward:

Music and Life -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

I'm kind of pushing Watts because there are huge benefits I got from learning completely different ways of view than I've heard just about anywhere else.  After listening to many hours of him, it made many eastern things make sense to me, that would have gone right over my head otherwise.  You can learn these things over a period of time; it took several years for me for it to really sink in.  It isn't required to learn eastern thought, but for me it helps explain certain things to me to help make sense of the world.

Alan

I must admit that Mooji and Watts are quite refreshing, in that they are pushing the idea of self-identity. I often get the impression from, um, "certain" Catholic websites that our primary identity is as Catholics and that is how we should identify. Whereas we are far too complex to be reduced to just our religious beliefs. Discovery of self is so important and it's important to live life to the full and freely (within reason), rather than tiptoeing around in case one "sins".

I don't know if any of my ramblings make any sense to you, Alan  Embarrassed
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Alan
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 06:50:03 AM »

I must admit that Mooji and Watts are quite refreshing, in that they are pushing the idea of self-identity. I often get the impression from, um, "certain" Catholic websites that our primary identity is as Catholics and that is how we should identify. Whereas we are far too complex to be reduced to just our religious beliefs. Discovery of self is so important and it's important to live life to the full and freely (within reason), rather than tiptoeing around in case one "sins".

I don't know if any of my ramblings make any sense to you, Alan  Embarrassed

Absolutely you are making sense.  I'm thrilled you picked up on that from Watts and Mooji, because getting a sense of identity (or at least knowing what I am NOT) has helped me tremendously, and helped me incorporate the teachings of Christ in ways I could never do with the old worldly sense of self...

Here's a Watts aniimated short that speaks directly to what we are not:  "I" -- by Alan Watts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAVM_Xk_o9E

Another cute one I like:  Madness -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVj6eriEcVI

Note that Watts died in 1973, so he never got to see these videos; I think they did a great job of putting pictures to his recorded lectures.

Alan
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Justicia et Pax
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 07:40:12 AM »

Absolutely you are making sense.  I'm thrilled you picked up on that from Watts and Mooji, because getting a sense of identity (or at least knowing what I am NOT) has helped me tremendously, and helped me incorporate the teachings of Christ in ways I could never do with the old worldly sense of self...

Here's a Watts aniimated short that speaks directly to what we are not:  "I" -- by Alan Watts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAVM_Xk_o9E

Another cute one I like:  Madness -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVj6eriEcVI

Note that Watts died in 1973, so he never got to see these videos; I think they did a great job of putting pictures to his recorded lectures.

Alan

Thanks for sharing these, Alan. Watts certainly seems like an interesting chap and the animators have certainly done a fine job. As an aside, I think St Therese of Lisieux hit the nail on the head as to what we essentially are: children of God. Not Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox; not black, white and everything in between. Just children of God, scattering rose petals at His feet Smiley

I meant to say earlier that I like Lana's idea of tarrying (I forget whether you mentioned it in this thread or the other thread). It describes things so well Smiley
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Alan
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 08:31:02 AM »

As an aside, I think St Therese of Lisieux hit the nail on the head as to what we essentially are: children of God. Not Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox; not black, white and everything in between. Just children of God, scattering rose petals at His feet Smiley
Yes, Jesus made it very clear, over and over, that group identity was not something that impressed God.  I've heard the joke that going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

When He said let them (those who were not part of their group) cast out demons, whoever is not against us is for us...

Mark 9:38-41
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.



The Good Samaritan was entirely about blowing away the ideas of people's groups making them righteous.

Luke 10:30-37
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”


The Pharisee and the tax collector was another obvious one; your label/profession does not define your relationship with God.

Luke 18:9-14
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


That's one reason I've started a couple threads before on not being "proud" to be Catholic.  Blessed, and maybe grateful, but not proud.  Being Catholic says nothing about the kind of person I am, although I guess being an "active Catholic" at least says I'm making some effort toward being with God.  Or does it?  Maybe it means something else...

And there are so many more.  We separate ourselves into groups that facilitate our talking about ourselves.  But then we think there is some overlap between what group we're in and our minds and hearts, and that's where the problem is.

Quote
I meant to say earlier that I like Lana's idea of tarrying (I forget whether you mentioned it in this thread or the other thread). It describes things so well Smiley

Yes, Lana learned a deep love of God at a young age, and has great insight into these kinds of things.  The expression of love without a lot of theological justification and explanation.  Smiley

Alan
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 08:44:06 AM »

I've heard the joke that going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

Ha! I'd not heard that one before. Very true though  Tongue

Quote
That's one reason I've started a couple threads before on not being "proud" to be Catholic.  Blessed, and maybe grateful, but not proud.  Being Catholic says nothing about the kind of person I am, although I guess being an "active Catholic" at least says I'm making some effort toward being with God.  Or does it?  Maybe it means something else...

I was actually going to write earlier on in this conversation that I am proud to be a Catholic... but then I thought, "WHY would I be proud to be a Catholic? Isn't that making myself and other Catholics superior to others, we say that?!" I am certainly glad to be a Catholic but I agree with you that "proud" or expressions of "pride" are not quite the right sentiment.


Quote
Yes, Lana learned a deep love of God at a young age, and has great insight into these kinds of things.  The expression of love without a lot of theological justification and explanation.  Smiley

Alan

I wish I could be more like Lana. I feel like I am failing in my spiritual life. I seem to only truly love God/be a child of God, when I am psychotic  Undecided
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Alan
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 09:02:11 AM »

I feel like I am failing in my spiritual life. I seem to only truly love God/be a child of God, when I am psychotic  Undecided

The times I was most on fire with God, I was also very manic.  It worked out that the psychosis acted as a bridge that connected me and this stupid world, in the world of the kingdom where God's peace and other gifts of the spirit abound.  Keeping my feet on the ground and my head in the clouds made me assume some funny postures during the 12 years I was psychotic.

So for me, the psychosis was about my thinking and how my thinking didn't adapt to my surroundings.  It also gave me "cover" while I was "under construction."  There are other advantages but I'm getting a distraction here so I'll leave it at this for now.

Alan
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 09:25:42 AM »

 It also gave me "cover" while I was "under construction."  

I like this idea. It reminds me of the cocoon of St Teresa of Avila's "silk worm" Smiley

Btw, I duplicated my new thread by accident - any chance you could delete one of them?  Embarrassed
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Alan
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 10:06:51 AM »

It also gave me "cover" while I was "under construction."  

I like this idea. It reminds me of the cocoon of St Teresa of Avila's "silk worm" Smiley

Nice.  I'll have to look into that...

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Btw, I duplicated my new thread by accident - any chance you could delete one of them?  Embarrassed

Done.

Alan
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 08:22:39 PM »

He is not Catholic.  I don't know what his religion is exactly, but I think he talks in language that doesn't depend too much on a church's teachings.

Mooji's of the Advaita Vedanta aka nonduality school. His teacher was H.W.L Poonja aka Papaji, a well-known Advaita master.
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