Faith Community at WordsFree.org
September 19, 2018, 12:11:55 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Wordsfree is on a New Server again! (April 2017)
We moved from Azure to a new cloud solution that should be more stable, and importantly: cheaper! -- Matt
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Rohr Meditations -- Week of 11/18/2012 -- BEING PRESENT  (Read 4393 times)
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« on: November 18, 2012, 02:24:26 AM »

November 18, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

BEING PRESENT

   
The early but learned pattern of dualistic thinking can get us only so
far; so all religions at the more mature levels have discovered another
“software” for processing the really big questions, like death,
love, infinity, suffering, and God. Many of us call this access
“contemplation.” It is a non-dualistic way of seeing the moment.
Originally, the word was simply “prayer.”

It is living in the naked now, the “sacrament of the present
moment,” that will teach us how to actually experience our
experiences, whether good, bad, or ugly, and how to let them transform
us. Words by themselves invariably divide the moment; pure presence lets
it be what it is, as it is.

When you can be present, you will know the Real Presence. I promise you
this is true. And it is almost that simple.

Prayer:
When I am present, I can know the Real Presence.
Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 06:03:48 AM »

November 19, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

BEING PRESENT

   
Hugh of St. Victor (1078-1141) and Richard of St. Victor (1123-1173)
wrote that humanity was given three sets of eyes, each building on the
previous one. The first eye was the eye of the flesh (thought or sight),
the second was the eye of reason (meditation or reflection), and the
third eye was the eye of true understanding (contemplation).

I cannot emphasize strongly enough that the separation and loss of these
three necessary eyes is at the basis of much of the short-sightedness
and religious crises of the Western world. Lacking such wisdom, it is
very difficult for churches, governments, and leaders to move beyond
ego, the desire for control, and public posturing. Everything divides
into oppositions such as liberal vs. conservative, with vested interests
pulling against one another. Truth is no longer possible at this level
of conversation. Even theology becomes more a quest for power than a
search for God and Mystery.

Prayer:
When I am present, I can know the Real Presence.
Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 02:29:54 AM »

November 20, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

BEING PRESENT

   
The mystical gaze happens whenever, by some wondrous “coincidence,”
our heart space, our mind space, and our body awareness are all
simultaneously open and nonresistant. I like to call it presence.

One wonders how far spiritual leaders can genuinely lead us without some
degree of mystical seeing and action. It is hardly an exaggeration to
say that “us-and-them” seeing, and the dualistic thinking that
results, is the foundation of almost all discontent and violence in the
world. It allows heads of religion and state to avoid their own
founders, their own national ideals, and their own better instincts.
Lacking the contemplative gaze, such leaders will remain mere
functionaries and technicians, without any big picture to guide them for
the long term. The world and the churches are filled with such people,
often using God language as a cover for their own lack of certainty or
depth.

Prayer:
When I am present, I can know the Real Presence.
Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
ncjohn
Global Moderator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +216/-102
Offline Offline

Posts: 6413



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 10:00:10 AM »


The world and the churches are filled with such people,
often using God language as a cover for their own lack of certainty or
depth.


I think this may be the major problem of most organized religion. I had thought that it was an issue of them teaching us what to think rather than "how" to think. On further consideration though, I think that at the clerical levels, a significant percentage want to teach us NOT to think, but instead to just introject whatever they want us to accept and then bleat out to the other sheep.
Logged

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
OneSheep
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 207


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 12:01:06 PM »


The world and the churches are filled with such people,
often using God language as a cover for their own lack of certainty or
depth.


I think this may be the major problem of most organized religion. I had thought that it was an issue of them teaching us what to think rather than "how" to think. On further consideration though, I think that at the clerical levels, a significant percentage want to teach us NOT to think, but instead to just introject whatever they want us to accept and then bleat out to the other sheep.

Oh, "sheep" caught me attention, baaa. Smiley  There is a "however" to this, though.  The study from Yale that I posted, the 60 minutes report, showed that us-and-them thinking is part of our nature.  The evolutionary benefit of communing with those who have commonalities probably leads to an enhanced survival in some way.  So ingroup/outgroup thinking is hardly an invention of religious institutions, the thinking is universal. 

Certainly we should move away from such thinking, and reconciliation is the means.
Logged
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 02:27:23 AM »

November 21, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

BEING PRESENT

   
The ability to stand back and calmly observe our inner dramas, without
rushing to judgment, is foundational for spiritual seeing. It is the
primary form of “dying to the self” that Jesus lived personally and
the Buddha taught experientially. The growing consensus is that,
whatever you call it, such calm, egoless seeing is invariably
characteristic of people at the highest levels of doing and loving in
all cultures and religions. They are the ones we call sages or wise
women or holy men. They see like the mystics see.

Now do not let the word “mystic” scare you. It simply means one who
has moved from mere belief systems or belonging systems to actual inner
experience. All spiritual traditions agree that such a movement is
possible, desirable, and available to everyone. In fact, Jesus seems to
say that this is the whole point! (See, for example, John 10:19-38. [1])

Prayer:
When I am present, I can know the Real Presence.
Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
ncjohn
Global Moderator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +216/-102
Offline Offline

Posts: 6413



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2012, 01:47:18 PM »


Oh, "sheep" caught me attention, baaa. Smiley  


 Cheesy


Quote

The study from Yale that I posted, the 60 minutes report, showed that us-and-them thinking is part of our nature.  


Without meaning to be argumentative, I'll say again state that I don't necessarily see that correlation or "proof" that this is a matter of "nature."

Quote

The evolutionary benefit of communing with those who have commonalities probably leads to an enhanced survival in some way.  


I would tend to agree with this. We do tend to learn the idea of "safety in numbers." When the "stranger" without is attacking your "village" (in whatever generic form that village may take), you circle the wagons as a matter of survival. I would certainly see that behavior extending to simply protect the "group identity."

Quote

So ingroup/outgroup thinking is hardly an invention of religious institutions, the thinking is universal.


I'm less sure about this extrapolation. Even within the generalized animal kingdom "herd mentality" is not universal. You have both predator and prey that are communal and you have species of both that are not. You unquestionably have human beings who are attracted to groups for whatever reason and others that are loners through and through. I would agree that we all have a survival instinct that is innate and that we make judgments along the way as to outsiders that we consider safe or dangerous to that survival. I expect that is more a function of individual survival at the "natural" level than it is a function of ingroup/outgroup. I think the entire concept of belonging to a group is much more a learned behavior though it may be evolutionary within certain species in some way.

I tend to think there are many behaviors thought to be natural that are in fact not so. As an example, cats were studied to find out if the supposed innate behavior of killing and eating mice stood up. What was surprisingly found is that this behavior is actually based on what a kitten sees its mother doing. Cats whose mothers kill and eat mice do the same. Those whose mothers kill the mice but don't eat them do the same. Those whose mothers didn't chase mice also didn't. I have to admit to being quite surprised when I first learned this since, like I think most of us, I had assumed it to be their natural disposition. As an aside, I'm not sure what happens to kittens that get separated very early from their mothers and don't have models. I also don't remember if this was a 100% correlation.

Quote

Certainly we should move away from such thinking, and reconciliation is the means.


Agreed, but it gets that much harder to even consider that you should be looking to go there when those at the top of the food chain within the institution founded to bring us into communion with God and each other are instead largely teaching hatred and intolerance.  Cry
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 01:50:50 PM by ncjohn » Logged

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2012, 02:57:40 AM »

Richard's Daily Meditations

BEING PRESENT
Thursday, November 22, 2012
Thanksgiving Day in the USA

   
One increasing consensus among scholars and spiritual observers is that
conversion or enlightenment moves forward step by step from almost
totally dualistic thinking to non-dual thinking at the highest levels.
We call that higher way of seeing and being present contemplation. If
this ancient gift could be clarified and recovered for Western
Christians, Muslims, and Jews, religion would experience a monumental
leap forward. We could start being present to one another. We could live
in the naked now instead of hiding in the past or worrying about the
future, as we mentally rehearse resentments and make our case for why we
are right and someone else is wrong.

Good religion is always about seeing rightly: “The lamp of the body is
the eye; if your eye is sound, your whole body will be filled with
light,” as Jesus says in Matthew 6:22. How you see is what you see.
And to see rightly is to be able to be fully present—without fear,
without bias, and without judgment. It is such hard work for the ego,
for the emotions, and for the body, that I think most of us would simply
prefer to go to church services.


Prayer:
When I am present, I can know the Real Presence.
Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Lana
Full Member
***

Karma: +202/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 169


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 09:06:08 AM »

What is the lamp of the body? Is it Gods love, or did i miss something?

Lana
Logged
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2012, 09:09:55 AM »

What is the lamp of the body? Is it Gods love, or did i miss something?

Lana

I can't say for sure, but it hits me like our ability to experience the love of God.  I don't know that it is your eye, exactly, but whatever it is that opens up your mind and heart to God.  If it is pure, the light from God will fill you.  If it isn't pure -- cluttered with anxiety, fear, guilt, anger, etc. -- then you cannot receive God's love in a pure form.  So I see "the eye" as our openness and willingness to face God, unafraid and in truth.  Maybe it's a "lamp" because as far as the body is concerned, it is the source of light.

That's just how it strikes me, anyway.  Wink

Alan
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 09:12:34 AM by Alan » Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
ncjohn
Global Moderator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +216/-102
Offline Offline

Posts: 6413



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2012, 10:02:14 AM »

I think in this context he is saying that the eye is what lights the way for us--it is the "lamp". That if we "see" properly that everything else falls into place.

When you take it back to his comments about the three kinds of eyes (see 11/19), it brings out how our "sight" changes as we employ the different eyes, ending up (hopefully) seeing the world as God sees it through the eyes of love as we stop creating divisions and thinking dualistically.
Logged

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
Lana
Full Member
***

Karma: +202/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 169


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2012, 07:21:40 PM »

So once you stop cluttering your vision with "stuff" like anger, hatred, jelousy etc...the clearer you see things truthfully.
Then when you see things without your own agenda (the stuff) then the light can enter you. HE is the light. HE shines.

Lana
Logged
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2012, 02:50:55 AM »

November 23, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

BEING PRESENT

   
Non-dual thinking is a way of seeing that refuses to eliminate the
negative, the problematic, the threatening parts of everything. Non-dual
thinking does not divide the field of the naked now, but receives it
all. This demands some degree of real detachment from the self. The
non-dual/contemplative mind holds truth humbly, knowing that if it is
true, it is its own best argument.

Non-polarity thinking (if you prefer that phrase) teaches you how to
hold creative tensions, how to live with paradox and contradictions, how
not to run from mystery, and therefore how to practice what all
religions teach as necessary: compassion, mercy, loving kindness,
patience, forgiveness, and humility. You cannot really be present to the
naked now except with some degree of non-dualistic seeing and thinking.
Otherwise, you just write commentaries on everything, for or against.

Prayer:
When I am present, I can know the Real Presence.
Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Alan
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*****

Karma: +89/-5038
Offline Offline

Posts: 5544


Evolving...

piggysiggy
View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 07:22:32 AM »

November 24, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

BEING PRESENT

   
The non-dual paradox and mystery was for Christians a living person, an
icon we could gaze upon and fall in love with. Jesus became “the
pioneer and perfector of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2 [1]), “the
Mediator,” “very God and very human” at the same time, who
consistently said “follow me.” He is the living paradox, calling us
to imitate him, as we realize that “[he] and the Father are one”
(John 10:30 [2]). In him, the great gaps are all overcome; all cosmic
opposites are reconciled (Colossians 1:15-20 [3]) and we learn to live with
Mystery. For those who authentically “follow” him, those same
paradoxes (seeming contradictions) are gradually overcome in them. In
fact, this is why he said “follow me” and did not say “worship
me.”

[1]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+12:2&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV
[2]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10:30&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV
[3]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+1:15-20&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV

The dualistic mind gives us sanity and safety, and that is good enough.
But to address our religious and social problems in any creative or
finally helpful way, we also need something more, something bigger, and
something much better. We need “the mind of Christ” (1 Corinthians
2:16 [4]), or a non-dual seeing of every moment, where both the obvious and
the still-mysterious can exist side by side.

[4]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+2:16&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV

Prayer:
When I am present, I can know the Real Presence.
Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
OneSheep
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 207


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 10:15:27 AM »


I'm less sure about this extrapolation. Even within the generalized animal kingdom "herd mentality" is not universal. You have both predator and prey that are communal and you have species of both that are not. You unquestionably have human beings who are attracted to groups for whatever reason and others that are loners through and through. I would agree that we all have a survival instinct that is innate and that we make judgments along the way as to outsiders that we consider safe or dangerous to that survival. I expect that is more a function of individual survival at the "natural" level than it is a function of ingroup/outgroup. I think the entire concept of belonging to a group is much more a learned behavior though it may be evolutionary within certain species in some way.

Well, human loners are fairly rare.  I think the drive to commune is still there, but experience has modified the behavior.  It could be a matter of fears or resentment.  I am trying to think of a counter-example among the people I know, and I can't think of one.

Quote
I tend to think there are many behaviors thought to be natural that are in fact not so. As an example, cats were studied to find out if the supposed innate behavior of killing and eating mice stood up. What was surprisingly found is that this behavior is actually based on what a kitten sees its mother doing. Cats whose mothers kill and eat mice do the same. Those whose mothers kill the mice but don't eat them do the same. Those whose mothers didn't chase mice also didn't. I have to admit to being quite surprised when I first learned this since, like I think most of us, I had assumed it to be their natural disposition. As an aside, I'm not sure what happens to kittens that get separated very early from their mothers and don't have models. I also don't remember if this was a 100% correlation.


Interesting study.  I would highly doubt that a hungry kitty would just kill a mouse and leave it, regardless the upbringing.

It might be interesting to take this discussion to a higher level.  When I boil down the root of behavior into some innate drive, and see how the drive itself is part of the functional beauty and goodness of our species, I find that I can reconcile with those parts of myself, I can accept the existence of those drives and compulsions.  In this way, I am no longer divided against my self, so to speak.  I can sit at the table with my drives for material stuff, justice, free sex, etc. and work together with them without any enmity or denial.  For me, this is a peaceful way of being.  We all get along pretty well.  Boy does that sound like a split personality!  Anyway, I find such acceptance is an internal oneness with my ego.

I cannot deny that lots of stuff, probably most stuff, is learned.  These things I can attempt to unlearn or overcome if they cause me or those around me any grief.  Even so, I find it unfruitful to blame authorities or parents for making me the person that I am, and I am sure you would agree with this.  The things we have the power (with God's help) to change, it benefits us to try to change.  The things we cannot change we can learn to live with, and acceptance is a big part of that. 

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
enjoying one moment at a time;
accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
that I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
forever in the next.
Amen.


That "wisdom to know the difference" part is tricky.  Perhaps we all have to find our own things we can or cannot change, that it really is an existential issue.  I think I have found what I cannot change, but it is probably ridiculous to assume that others have the same unchangeable drives.  So, for those things you are trying to change, John, God grant you courage.

Quote

Agreed, but it gets that much harder to even consider that you should be looking to go there when those at the top of the food chain within the institution founded to bring us into communion with God and each other are instead largely teaching hatred and intolerance.  Cry

Let me try a little NVC here.  I am not very skilled at this, so I ask for your patience.  Let me know if it sounds like I am actually defending the leaders, which is not my intent:

When you think of certain acts or statements made by Church leaders, you are feeling some disappointment, maybe?  You want the world to be a loving place, an accepting place.  You want harmony.  Your request of them is to teach more about inclusion and acceptance rather than things that trigger hatred and intolerance.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!