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Author Topic: Rohr Meditations -- Week of 11/11/2012 -- INTIMACY  (Read 20428 times)
Patrick1540
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« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2012, 05:15:21 PM »

Poor is spirit, actually is pure in spirit. It is a total surrender to the Holy Spirit and God's love.When we surrender all of ourselves to the Holy Spirit,then he is able to lift us up into Heaven, in our spirit. This can happen specially in the liturgy of the Mass,specially during Eucharistic. Heaven and earth come together through the power of the Holy Spirit Wedding Feast of the Lamb.Yes I have been to Heaven in my spirit, many of times.I'm actually talking Holy Spirit lifts my spirit into Heaven. You may think it is crazy, but we all have the ability through the Grace of the Holy Spirit.Martyrs understood this, Apostles understood,and many Saints and prophets. Smiley

I agree with you about surrender, and that the Lord can lift our spirits into heaven.  But what about your eyes, your ears, your conscious thoughts?  Do they believe they have seen the kingdom, or is it more of a knowing of the spirit.  What I'm interested in is the idea that you came back.  So I'm wondering if your "wine skins" are being conditioned to take you whole mind and heart, along with your spirit?  Or am I reading this differently than you meant it?

Alan
Sorry Alan not getting back sooner. I guess you can say the soul is divided into two parts the conscience and the spirit.The spirit is in housed in a spiritual body much like an angle. We can recognize one another even before the resurrection of our bodies.You were given a new wine skin at baptism,this is the sealing of your spiritual being,but the conscienecness can still be corrupted. Enoch and elieja, were taken up body and soul. Blessed Mary was taken soul first, then in three days her body. My experiance has been in the spiritual body,if that makes sense.You, no what is going on around you,it is if you are asleep,but awake.It is so hard to describe. First you are surrounded by pure light of love, then you are lifted up.Your physical body stays, because it is imperfect,but your body spirit goes.That is about the best way I can explain it. Wink
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« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2012, 05:34:00 PM »

My experiance has been in the spiritual body,if that makes sense.You, no what is going on around you,it is if you are asleep,but awake.It is so hard to describe. First you are surrounded by pure light of love, then you are lifted up.Your physical body stays, because it is imperfect,but your body spirit goes.That is about the best way I can explain it. Wink

It sounds like when I thought I might have been a zombie.  I was "dead" to my emotional ties to people and things, and to my mental ties to belief systems.  I was just animated flesh, having a good old time because I had no anxiety, no fear, no shame or guilt, because I had no living brain to process and experience them in.  Funny thing is I experienced joy, but not with so much "gut" feeling but more just like a knowing "smile."  At the same time, though, it seemed there were optimization routines connected to the Matrix, because it seemed like the world unfolded just for me as I went along, as if I both weren't even in it, or was the central point of it, at the same time.  So at once I felt no guilt or shame, but I also felt that I was a valuable actor in the world and was only up to doing Good Things.  Some may not even agree they are Good Things, but I "know better" (because being brainless is just like being excessively brained -- "brain bound") and see how they work into the Bigger Picture.  Because I'm not limited by the worldly issues of people who have to live human drama.  I witness it and empathize a bit, but don't experience it -- and don't miss it.

Good grief.  That may sound very weird.  Any of this sound like your experience?

Alan
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« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2012, 06:09:25 PM »

My experiance has been in the spiritual body,if that makes sense.You, no what is going on around you,it is if you are asleep,but awake.It is so hard to describe. First you are surrounded by pure light of love, then you are lifted up.Your physical body stays, because it is imperfect,but your body spirit goes.That is about the best way I can explain it. Wink

It sounds like when I thought I might have been a zombie.  I was "dead" to my emotional ties to people and things, and to my mental ties to belief systems.  I was just animated flesh, having a good old time because I had no anxiety, no fear, no shame or guilt, because I had no living brain to process and experience them in.  Funny thing is I experienced joy, but not with so much "gut" feeling but more just like a knowing "smile."  At the same time, though, it seemed there were optimization routines connected to the Matrix, because it seemed like the world unfolded just for me as I went along, as if I both weren't even in it, or was the central point of it, at the same time.  So at once I felt no guilt or shame, but I also felt that I was a valuable actor in the world and was only up to doing Good Things.  Some may not even agree they are Good Things, but I "know better" (because being brainless is just like being excessively brained -- "brain bound") and see how they work into the Bigger Picture.  Because I'm not limited by the worldly issues of people who have to live human drama.  I witness it and empathize a bit, but don't experience it -- and don't miss it.

Good grief.  That may sound very weird.  Any of this sound like your experience?

Alan
Yes Alan, it is sounds a lot like to what I experience.When in the Spirit, my body exist, but has no desires for the things around me. No desire for conversation, no desire,but yet it knows. The Matrix is a good way of expressing it. This world, even though I am in it doesn't seem real to me when I am in the Spirit. I know it is there, but at the same time I'm else where with God's Spirit.
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« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2012, 06:47:02 PM »

Yes Alan, it is sounds a lot like to what I experience.When in the Spirit, my body exist, but has no desires for the things around me. No desire for conversation, no desire,but yet it knows. The Matrix is a good way of expressing it. This world, even though I am in it doesn't seem real to me when I am in the Spirit. I know it is there, but at the same time I'm else where with God's Spirit.

OK well being a zombie eventually matured into being in the kingdom, and I get that full time now.  Smiley

By the way you wrote, I thought you and I might have had similar experiences; that confirms it and is why I invited you here.  My wish is to perform spiritual connections among all people, at a level even more fundamental than religion or even belief systems.  Basically there is no Catholic, Jew, or Buddhist.  I also call this the harvest, where the harvest has been ready for 2000 years so I'm dedicated to finding and conditioning myself and others as workers for that harvest.  

These things we're talking about aren't religion-specific, although some of the images and imagery are going to be in whatever ideas your imagination is used to thinking about, including religious forms of various spiritual phenomena.  They are experiences we have gone through on our journey toward God, and they are so self-evident that we don't need a theologian from any religion to explain it.  That said, we are blessed to have all the wonderful resources the major religions do have, and in the west most notable the Catholic Church.  (I consider the Protestant Reformation like it was God's diversification plan -- I feel compelled to find the good result from everything that Rom 8:28 tells us is there.)

One thing I've noticed is that you have stuck pretty close to Catholic dogma in what you've described in most of your posts.  I hope it doesn't bother you that I communicate with and talk about people of other systems such as eastern, new age, pantheist, etc.  I even have my first grandchild, born to my daughter and her Hindu husband.  So I don't know what religion he'll be, but I know he'll be a king and close to God.

Alan
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 08:40:19 PM by Alan » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2012, 08:55:59 AM »

No worries Alan, I always appreciate your posts no matter how much nor how little the detail you go into Smiley I appreciate you reaching out to me at this time Smiley

I suppose I just - rather selfishly - miss being that close to God and feeling His presence in my everyday life  Embarrassed

If your path takes you anything like mine, and I'd bet it will, then you will end up getting the best of both worlds.  Feeling that close to God and His creation, being in perfect confidence and serenity, but without the mania and all the spectacular behavior that gives us and those around us, problems.

How would you like to be able to just sit quietly, totally relaxed, but spiritually just as enthusiastic as you were when manic -- as if God were within you.  Because He is.  Then you get up to turn on the stove, answer the door, whatever, and even though you are doing it calmly and self-controlled, you are so eager to take every step that you would neither extend nor cut short by means of racing the clock.  That said you might find yourself walking very fast much of the time, because you won't even notice the effort compared to the usual drudgery of "having to get up and do something."

What would you give for the feeling that Right Here, Right Now, is the very best time of your life ... but that it's getting better.  Then in five minutes you feel that way still ... and again ... and still ... to the point that almost every minute of every day feels like life is getting better.  Things can't possibly get better than this -- but then they do.  Those minutes where it might seem to get worse, become not only tolerable but a happy part of the improvement process.  How boring would it be if life were all of a sudden totally no challenge at all?  Wink

I'm trying to describe, in very clumsy words, what this "kingdom thinking" is like that I've enjoyed as a result of all my efforts and the help and support of friends and loved ones, (both in person and online) and even helped by adversaries (without whom life would be meaningless and weak).

I'm exploding to visit people face to face, and it always goes well now.  Every time.  Used to be a hit and miss thing.  I described "kingdom thinking" to a good Wichita friend "Dan," who "got it" right away (he's a very contemplative person) and later that day he reached out to his son -- 25 or so in age -- with whom his relationship was strained.  He said the son was reluctant, but then he got it, and then he REALLY got it.  (This kid, who had been bipolar, was only child but gay, rebellious, was really a good, smart kid but he and Dan just weren't cutting it.)  Then for the first time in months since they had a falling out, they went fishing together.  And they invited me.  It was the first time I've been fishing since 1983; the time before that was in the seventies.  After the fishing trip, when Dan was telling me about his conversation with his son, I said, "so make sure I got this right.  After we talked Monday, you talked to him and your relationship took a sudden improvement?"  Dan said, "it went from nothing to everything, just like that.  I just sat him down and said, 'look, I'm really sorry about the hurtful things I said to you that one day.' and then he just opened up and it was a done deal."  

The fishing trip was warm and intimate itself, and the funny thing was I didn't even know about their conversation until after the fishing.  I just took it they were that close all along.  Wink

Oh well I'm not trying to explain anything really but just to give you a few samples of what I got when my mania and everything settled, which was very recently so I'm still too anxious to talk about it.  Grin

Your kingdom may vary, but I know you'll love it.  And you'll think that even now you were already in it but just weren't open to seeing it just yet.  Smiley

Here we were at fishing.  In about two hours we caught the limit, 6 big catfish (2 each limit), with the biggest 5 lb 5 oz.  There were three of us working five poles.

The bright dot in the center is the full moon rising.  This was Wednesday 11/28 with perfect weather and full moon.  I told Dan about my "kingdom" Monday 11/26, which is the day he reunited with his son.




« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 09:17:25 AM by Alan » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2012, 03:36:18 PM »

Justica dear, i can clearly see that you and Alan experience so much in common that i wanted to point out that God brought you here for a reason. Even if it was to see you were not alone on the curb, and that the feeling of being so different is hard to justify in worthiness. But listen to this, There is a reason it is only here and there that you experience this. You are having lessons so to speak, and the mania needs time to process, absorb and be articulated. Like a wondrous concert you attend, you can not await the next time you attend one again. So just stop, absorb, love, and treasure the moments and lessons he placed before you during these moments. Even a car has a low and high gear, but running it in this mode would not be good for the car to do it full time. But it is capable and has the strength to do so when you need it to. Imagine, some live without ever knowing this peace...you are blessed.

Lana
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« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2012, 03:45:26 PM »

Justica dear, i can clearly see that you and Alan experience so much in common that i wanted to point out that God brought you here for a reason. Even if it was to see you were not alone on the curb, and that the feeling of being so different is hard to justify in worthiness. But listen to this, There is a reason it is only here and there that you experience this. You are having lessons so to speak, and the mania needs time to process, absorb and be articulated. Like a wondrous concert you attend, you can not await the next time you attend one again. So just stop, absorb, love, and treasure the moments and lessons he placed before you during these moments. Even a car has a low and high gear, but running it in this mode would not be good for the car to do it full time. But it is capable and has the strength to do so when you need it to. Imagine, some live without ever knowing this peace...you are blessed.

Lana

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« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2012, 12:25:51 PM »

Justica dear, i can clearly see that you and Alan experience so much in common that i wanted to point out that God brought you here for a reason. Even if it was to see you were not alone on the curb, and that the feeling of being so different is hard to justify in worthiness. But listen to this, There is a reason it is only here and there that you experience this. You are having lessons so to speak, and the mania needs time to process, absorb and be articulated. Like a wondrous concert you attend, you can not await the next time you attend one again. So just stop, absorb, love, and treasure the moments and lessons he placed before you during these moments. Even a car has a low and high gear, but running it in this mode would not be good for the car to do it full time. But it is capable and has the strength to do so when you need it to. Imagine, some live without ever knowing this peace...you are blessed.

Lana

Thank you, Lana, for your wonderful post. I had never thought that perhaps the 'downtime' is a time to learn and absorb. I was too busy on focusing on how miserable I feel  Embarrassed It is certainly by the grace of God that I have been brought here and I thank you all for being so welcoming and kind to me Smiley
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« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2012, 12:33:45 PM »

No worries Alan, I always appreciate your posts no matter how much nor how little the detail you go into Smiley I appreciate you reaching out to me at this time Smiley

I suppose I just - rather selfishly - miss being that close to God and feeling His presence in my everyday life  Embarrassed

If your path takes you anything like mine, and I'd bet it will, then you will end up getting the best of both worlds.  Feeling that close to God and His creation, being in perfect confidence and serenity, but without the mania and all the spectacular behavior that gives us and those around us, problems.

How would you like to be able to just sit quietly, totally relaxed, but spiritually just as enthusiastic as you were when manic -- as if God were within you.  Because He is.  Then you get up to turn on the stove, answer the door, whatever, and even though you are doing it calmly and self-controlled, you are so eager to take every step that you would neither extend nor cut short by means of racing the clock.  That said you might find yourself walking very fast much of the time, because you won't even notice the effort compared to the usual drudgery of "having to get up and do something."

What would you give for the feeling that Right Here, Right Now, is the very best time of your life ... but that it's getting better.  Then in five minutes you feel that way still ... and again ... and still ... to the point that almost every minute of every day feels like life is getting better.  Things can't possibly get better than this -- but then they do.  Those minutes where it might seem to get worse, become not only tolerable but a happy part of the improvement process.  How boring would it be if life were all of a sudden totally no challenge at all?  Wink

I'm trying to describe, in very clumsy words, what this "kingdom thinking" is like that I've enjoyed as a result of all my efforts and the help and support of friends and loved ones, (both in person and online) and even helped by adversaries (without whom life would be meaningless and weak).

I'm exploding to visit people face to face, and it always goes well now.  Every time.  Used to be a hit and miss thing.  I described "kingdom thinking" to a good Wichita friend "Dan," who "got it" right away (he's a very contemplative person) and later that day he reached out to his son -- 25 or so in age -- with whom his relationship was strained.  He said the son was reluctant, but then he got it, and then he REALLY got it.  (This kid, who had been bipolar, was only child but gay, rebellious, was really a good, smart kid but he and Dan just weren't cutting it.)  Then for the first time in months since they had a falling out, they went fishing together.  And they invited me.  It was the first time I've been fishing since 1983; the time before that was in the seventies.  After the fishing trip, when Dan was telling me about his conversation with his son, I said, "so make sure I got this right.  After we talked Monday, you talked to him and your relationship took a sudden improvement?"  Dan said, "it went from nothing to everything, just like that.  I just sat him down and said, 'look, I'm really sorry about the hurtful things I said to you that one day.' and then he just opened up and it was a done deal."  

The fishing trip was warm and intimate itself, and the funny thing was I didn't even know about their conversation until after the fishing.  I just took it they were that close all along.  Wink

Oh well I'm not trying to explain anything really but just to give you a few samples of what I got when my mania and everything settled, which was very recently so I'm still too anxious to talk about it.  Grin

Your kingdom may vary, but I know you'll love it.  And you'll think that even now you were already in it but just weren't open to seeing it just yet.  Smiley

Here we were at fishing.  In about two hours we caught the limit, 6 big catfish (2 each limit), with the biggest 5 lb 5 oz.  There were three of us working five poles.

The bright dot in the center is the full moon rising.  This was Wednesday 11/28 with perfect weather and full moon.  I told Dan about my "kingdom" Monday 11/26, which is the day he reunited with his son.






Thank you, Alan, for your kind post. I would LOVE to be able to sit calmly and quietly and be spiritually enthralled or in rapture. I can't tell you how much I want that. I very much aspire to and admire Carmelite spirituality and am inexplicably drawn to it, despite it being at odds with my temperament and health, amongst other things.

Even simpler than that though: I simply can't sit still with Jesus during Adoration of the Eucharist. I don't know what to do. I can't do it. And it BUGS me that I can't do it Sad

I'm so glad you spoke to your friend Dan and that he reconciled with his son Smiley I tell you something though, Alan: I hope it's not gonna take me 11 years to get to the stage of kingdom thinking. I admire you for doing it, don't get me wrong, but I am an impatient person  Wink
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« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2012, 01:12:14 PM »

Thank you, Alan, for your kind post. I would LOVE to be able to sit calmly and quietly and be spiritually enthralled or in rapture. I can't tell you how much I want that. I very much aspire to and admire Carmelite spirituality and am inexplicably drawn to it, despite it being at odds with my temperament and health, amongst other things.

Even simpler than that though: I simply can't sit still with Jesus during Adoration of the Eucharist. I don't know what to do. I can't do it. And it BUGS me that I can't do it Sad

I'm so glad you spoke to your friend Dan and that he reconciled with his son Smiley I tell you something though, Alan: I hope it's not gonna take me 11 years to get to the stage of kingdom thinking. I admire you for doing it, don't get me wrong, but I am an impatient person  Wink

I totally hear you.  I have the patience of a gnat.  I'd say 11 days or even 11 weeks would be much more palatable, wouldn't you think?  Wink

No, when I started contemplative prayer in 2001, and I heard of people taking years and even decades "purely on faith" before seeing results, if even then.  I was like, "no way Jose."  If I'm not feeling something differently by this afternoon, I'm out!  Grin

What happened was Fr. Thomas Keating gave an excellent description of how the false self within us develops psychologically and even according to evolution.  My SD started me in centering prayer, and every week we would watch about an hour of his videos, in between 20 minute prayers.  But Keating explains the whole process, psychologically and mystically both.  So what happened was I quickly bought into the "technical" aspects of centering prayer, and the spiritual journey, and destruction of the false self.  This was the first time ever, for my analytic mind, I had any notion of the connection between math/science, and spirituality.

So during these 11 years, I've pieced together a great number of sources, and finally completed the journey with all that help.  I know that now the Holy Spirit is guiding me, even my fingers as I type this -- I know it's the "spirits" guiding me (I made it plural just in case) when I don't know what I'm typing until I see it on the screen.  In my world, I can see everybody potentially in the kingdom, and those I focus on, definitely so.  But almost have obstacles to seeing it themselves.  I believe my calling it to do whatever I do, because I do what I'm called to do.  Does that make sense?  It's like do I act because the spirit calls me, or do I know the spirit calls me because I witness myself acting?

I digress.  Now that I've gone through it, I see how unnecessary it was to take that long, for lack of a good guide.  For example, if I'd kept my SD (he quit due to illness) it might have been three years instead of 11.  If it were Jesus, He could just say it and it would happen.  Basically being spirit born into the kingdom is like getting a joke that has been explained to you but never really "hit" you.  It can happen at any time, and I think one of the strongest formulas we have is our love and support for each other through extreme experiences.  We will pull together to elevate us all.

One of the reasons I invite the people I do invite, is that I want WordsFree to become a center for kingdom thinking and kingdom behavior toward one another.  Some people I invite because I see matches, like when you were posting over at CAF I saw some of both Lana and me in you -- I thought it was jackpot because Lana and I have ways of thinking and processing things are very much different so you could be like the third vertex of our little "triangle."  Grin  

But another reason I invite people whom I see "so close" to the kingdom that I notice people writing things that are beyond the "typical" logic and show actual revelation of some sort, even if it's just because someone was thinking clearly.  Either way, it's truth that is beyond the Matrix that almost everybody is in.  I'm convinced now how the desert fathers kept the Good News alive and well for generations until it got documented and controlled by the Church.  I believe that the stronger we get, the more our mere presence with other people will help pull them toward the kingdom.

Alan
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 01:20:11 PM by Alan » Logged

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« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2012, 05:39:00 PM »

Justica dear, i seen this: I simply can't sit still with Jesus during Adoration of the Eucharist. I don't know what to do. I can't do it. And it BUGS me that I can't do it and my heart smiled. It is clear you have not seen something in your words. You WANT TO, but are unable to sit still for adoration. Usually we have an hour to do this. Try this...go, have a list in your head, or bring a rosary to say them while in your seat. Say them, and await a turn to go up to the kneeler in front of the blessed sacrament. When you go there, Thank him for being with you, and helping you to be there with him. Tell him what is in your heart, that it is desired, but attention wise it is so difficult. Ask him to help you with this, and that you never want to stop trying. Thank him for helping you try.

And smile that you DID try, and then sit back down. All this might take two minutes in front of, but it is two minutes. Then go back to saying the rosary. If you have no intentions for the rosary, think of you week at hand, and the tasks you want to complete...and ask that he be there to help you through it.


BTW, this is exactly what i do, because i too do not know how to be present for an hour at the one task...but trying DOES matter to him, and so do intentions!

God Bless!

Lana
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« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2012, 06:44:18 PM »

I totally hear you.  I have the patience of a gnat.  I'd say 11 days or even 11 weeks would be much more palatable, wouldn't you think?  Wink

No, when I started contemplative prayer in 2001, and I heard of people taking years and even decades "purely on faith" before seeing results, if even then.  I was like, "no way Jose."  If I'm not feeling something differently by this afternoon, I'm out!  Grin

What happened was Fr. Thomas Keating gave an excellent description of how the false self within us develops psychologically and even according to evolution.  My SD started me in centering prayer, and every week we would watch about an hour of his videos, in between 20 minute prayers.  But Keating explains the whole process, psychologically and mystically both.  So what happened was I quickly bought into the "technical" aspects of centering prayer, and the spiritual journey, and destruction of the false self.  This was the first time ever, for my analytic mind, I had any notion of the connection between math/science, and spirituality.

So during these 11 years, I've pieced together a great number of sources, and finally completed the journey with all that help.  I know that now the Holy Spirit is guiding me, even my fingers as I type this -- I know it's the "spirits" guiding me (I made it plural just in case) when I don't know what I'm typing until I see it on the screen.  In my world, I can see everybody potentially in the kingdom, and those I focus on, definitely so.  But almost have obstacles to seeing it themselves.  I believe my calling it to do whatever I do, because I do what I'm called to do.  Does that make sense?  It's like do I act because the spirit calls me, or do I know the spirit calls me because I witness myself acting?

I digress.  Now that I've gone through it, I see how unnecessary it was to take that long, for lack of a good guide.  For example, if I'd kept my SD (he quit due to illness) it might have been three years instead of 11.  If it were Jesus, He could just say it and it would happen.  Basically being spirit born into the kingdom is like getting a joke that has been explained to you but never really "hit" you.  It can happen at any time, and I think one of the strongest formulas we have is our love and support for each other through extreme experiences.  We will pull together to elevate us all.

One of the reasons I invite the people I do invite, is that I want WordsFree to become a center for kingdom thinking and kingdom behavior toward one another.  Some people I invite because I see matches, like when you were posting over at CAF I saw some of both Lana and me in you -- I thought it was jackpot because Lana and I have ways of thinking and processing things are very much different so you could be like the third vertex of our little "triangle."  Grin  

But another reason I invite people whom I see "so close" to the kingdom that I notice people writing things that are beyond the "typical" logic and show actual revelation of some sort, even if it's just because someone was thinking clearly.  Either way, it's truth that is beyond the Matrix that almost everybody is in.  I'm convinced now how the desert fathers kept the Good News alive and well for generations until it got documented and controlled by the Church.  I believe that the stronger we get, the more our mere presence with other people will help pull them toward the kingdom.

Alan

Alan, 11 minutes is pushing it for me! I'm very much an instant gratification type of person, though I try my best to be patient and undemanding  Embarrassed

I am very honoured to be part of this triangle with two such Christ-driven people  Grin I totally understand your sentences about your calling, on the first read I totally got what you meant. So no need to worry about that.

I wish I knew what my call was. I was called to love and look after someone very dear to the Lord, who needed my help. That person abused me and my trust though, which makes me doubt whether it was really a call from God and whether it was just me being "manic" or "delusional" again :/
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« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2012, 06:52:29 PM »

Justica dear, i seen this: I simply can't sit still with Jesus during Adoration of the Eucharist. I don't know what to do. I can't do it. And it BUGS me that I can't do it and my heart smiled. It is clear you have not seen something in your words. You WANT TO, but are unable to sit still for adoration. Usually we have an hour to do this. Try this...go, have a list in your head, or bring a rosary to say them while in your seat. Say them, and await a turn to go up to the kneeler in front of the blessed sacrament. When you go there, Thank him for being with you, and helping you to be there with him. Tell him what is in your heart, that it is desired, but attention wise it is so difficult. Ask him to help you with this, and that you never want to stop trying. Thank him for helping you try.

And smile that you DID try, and then sit back down. All this might take two minutes in front of, but it is two minutes. Then go back to saying the rosary. If you have no intentions for the rosary, think of you week at hand, and the tasks you want to complete...and ask that he be there to help you through it.


BTW, this is exactly what i do, because i too do not know how to be present for an hour at the one task...but trying DOES matter to him, and so do intentions!

God Bless!

Lana

You know what Lana, I wanna share with you the time I went to Adoration in the Adoration tent at Lourdes. I had an interior locution imparted by our Blessed Mother earlier that day, or maybe the day before, and so went into the tent wondering if I would hear/experience something. My mum wanted to spend a while in the tent, in front of the Eucharist, and I just didn't know what to do. So I told the Lord that I had no idea how to do Adoration or what to do or say. Then I heard a voice (with my ears) boom around the tent, saying "contemplate me and only me". (I don't think anyone else heard this voice.) And in that moment, I understood that to think about all the things that had been cluttering my mind those past few months, was actually to think of and contemplate God and the mysteries of the Divine, etc.

I was hoping after that experience that Adoration would become easier for me, or at least I would be more comfortable in my own skin. Alas, it was not to be Sad
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« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2012, 07:04:38 PM »

I wish I knew what my call was. I was called to love and look after someone very dear to the Lord, who needed my help. That person abused me and my trust though, which makes me doubt whether it was really a call from God and whether it was just me being "manic" or "delusional" again :/

Ultimately, one way to think that works for me -- and this could be quite a step -- that it was a gift from God to build you up.  Your spiritual/emotional/mental muscle is built up by you making it through challenges of different kinds.  The more you trust in Rom 8:28 the more you will believe, and eventually see, how these experiences shape us.  For me, I had what I called "severe (family) role vertigo" last year, and it messed me up terribly, but when I came out of it I went directly into the Kingdom.  The Lord is good, and now I can never wish to have changed anything in the past, even the evil done to and by me.  I'll change my future behavior, but I don't need to rewrite the past except for "what if" scenarios I might want to think about.  But not to wish they changed; no.  Yesterday's drama is today's old scratch paper.

Alan
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« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2012, 09:00:13 PM »

Justica, everyone has a special type of prayer...one certain type that speaks to them. Mine is the divine mercy chaplet, or simply singing myself into his presence. Some are repetitive, but never forget the ones that are just your own words. Not poetic, not versed, just sputtering on telling him about what you are up to...those are the best. Adoration is beautiful, but i do not get from it what was intended...i am too distracted at church to do so.

When something beautiful happens, and does not happen again, do not fret. Think of your spiritual journey as a cross stitch in progress. Each event a separate stitch, colour and intention for the finished product. But to be a spiritual painter you move around. You need the background here, the angle of the light here, and so one. Each stitch may not look like much, but as you get stronger and your focus zooms broader, you will start to see a bigger picture, not just colours.

Remember to not give over to frustration, but know that he would not frustrate you...there will be future use for these moments latter on, when he feels you are ready. In his time, not yours. Know there is a purpose, and you can tell him you do not know why, but trust him to use this moment another day for more clarity. Till then, you await to find another clue. AND, maybe you thought you were supposed to learn to be present, and maybe he was showing you that HE was really there, that He heard you, that you matter. Maybe it was not about the prayer. All unfinished happenings WITH him are mustard seeds.

If you get frustrated, think of this...the closer you get to God, the more Satan will insert negative into it. He is loosing you, and wants to win you back. So frustration, fear, anger, and so on are his tools. Note them for what they are, and rebuke Old Red Legs back to where he came from. You might not know why something happened, but you certainly will not deliver this progress onto the lap of Old Red Legs.

Lana
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« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2012, 10:53:59 AM »

I wish I knew what my call was. I was called to love and look after someone very dear to the Lord, who needed my help. That person abused me and my trust though, which makes me doubt whether it was really a call from God and whether it was just me being "manic" or "delusional" again :/

Ultimately, one way to think that works for me -- and this could be quite a step -- that it was a gift from God to build you up.  Your spiritual/emotional/mental muscle is built up by you making it through challenges of different kinds.  The more you trust in Rom 8:28 the more you will believe, and eventually see, how these experiences shape us.  For me, I had what I called "severe (family) role vertigo" last year, and it messed me up terribly, but when I came out of it I went directly into the Kingdom.  The Lord is good, and now I can never wish to have changed anything in the past, even the evil done to and by me.  I'll change my future behavior, but I don't need to rewrite the past except for "what if" scenarios I might want to think about.  But not to wish they changed; no.  Yesterday's drama is today's old scratch paper.

Alan

Thanks, Alan. I find it hard to see how God could have let it happen, though at the same time, I wouldn't go back and change a thing. Like you say, it's character building and you learn valuable life lessons from such an experience.

Please pray for me as I come to terms with what happened. Pray that I can see God's glory in what happened Sad
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« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2012, 10:56:56 AM »

Justica, everyone has a special type of prayer...one certain type that speaks to them. Mine is the divine mercy chaplet, or simply singing myself into his presence. Some are repetitive, but never forget the ones that are just your own words. Not poetic, not versed, just sputtering on telling him about what you are up to...those are the best. Adoration is beautiful, but i do not get from it what was intended...i am too distracted at church to do so.

When something beautiful happens, and does not happen again, do not fret. Think of your spiritual journey as a cross stitch in progress. Each event a separate stitch, colour and intention for the finished product. But to be a spiritual painter you move around. You need the background here, the angle of the light here, and so one. Each stitch may not look like much, but as you get stronger and your focus zooms broader, you will start to see a bigger picture, not just colours.

Remember to not give over to frustration, but know that he would not frustrate you...there will be future use for these moments latter on, when he feels you are ready. In his time, not yours. Know there is a purpose, and you can tell him you do not know why, but trust him to use this moment another day for more clarity. Till then, you await to find another clue. AND, maybe you thought you were supposed to learn to be present, and maybe he was showing you that HE was really there, that He heard you, that you matter. Maybe it was not about the prayer. All unfinished happenings WITH him are mustard seeds.

If you get frustrated, think of this...the closer you get to God, the more Satan will insert negative into it. He is loosing you, and wants to win you back. So frustration, fear, anger, and so on are his tools. Note them for what they are, and rebuke Old Red Legs back to where he came from. You might not know why something happened, but you certainly will not deliver this progress onto the lap of Old Red Legs.

Lana

Thanks for your post, Lana. For some reason, I feel drawn to the Fatima prayer ('O my Jesus, forgive us our sins...'). Not sure why. I find Fatima fascinating. Lourdes too, but Fatima more so.

I certainly need to work on going on God's time and not my own.

I like your name for Satan. Old Red Legs. What a great name!  Tongue

God bless Smiley
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« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2012, 11:04:15 AM »

Thanks, Alan. I find it hard to see how God could have let it happen, though at the same time, I wouldn't go back and change a thing. Like you say, it's character building and you learn valuable life lessons from such an experience.

Please pray for me as I come to terms with what happened. Pray that I can see God's glory in what happened Sad

Do you know why I like to give you my advice?  Because you take it and run with it.  Even if it sounds totally new, you are willing to consider and give it a go.  In short, it's like I give you a seed and you return a rose.

Alan
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« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2012, 01:33:10 PM »

Thanks, Alan. I find it hard to see how God could have let it happen, though at the same time, I wouldn't go back and change a thing. Like you say, it's character building and you learn valuable life lessons from such an experience.

Please pray for me as I come to terms with what happened. Pray that I can see God's glory in what happened Sad

Do you know why I like to give you my advice?  Because you take it and run with it.  Even if it sounds totally new, you are willing to consider and give it a go.  In short, it's like I give you a seed and you return a rose.

Alan

I dunno, Alan, I feel as though you have too much faith in me. I think it will take me quite a while to get to kingdom thinking. Still, I guess one can only hope and try!  Grin
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« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2012, 02:16:27 PM »

I dunno, Alan, I feel as though you have too much faith in me. I think it will take me quite a while to get to kingdom thinking. Still, I guess one can only hope and try!  Grin

Well the reason is that you seem open to try out different kinds of thinking, and then you put your own spin on it.  A lot of people aren't so honest, but it may not be that they are hiding something.  It's just that they have a lot invested in "having to be right."  They see new ways of thinking as threats to their old ways of thinking, not building blocks for an even greater awareness.

That is important because I think the main key to the kingdom is a spirit of poverty.  You come across as very ego-free, and that, to me, is the very direction you go toward a spirit of poverty.

"blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God."

A spirit of poverty is one that is unattached to any worldly item, or for that matter even beliefs, and of course "being right."  Some people might take that and say I mean that there is no right or wrong.  I'm just saying that that only beliefs any of us know are the things we believe we know, and like St. Paul says, anyone who thinks he knows doesn't yet know as he ought to know.  So that's how you keep it humble, by "listening" to people.  And think about when God spoke from the cloud and told us "listen to Him."  So when we listen to the least of Jesus's brothers, we are listening to Him IMO.  And listening means setting aside our agenda and out preconceived notions and biases, and just being open to another person's heartfelt story or ideas.

While that takes a spirit of poverty, it also takes confidence that you aren't going to go crazy because you listened to somebody's idea that was wrong.  Over a period of time, Other People's Stupidity can really get you down, but not because some person has an idea that challenges what you already think.  People don't want to hear creativity in progress; they want it digested and presented as in music or painting or finished poetry.  But I make this stuff up as I go along.

Those of us who have been bipolar symptoms have witness some extremes in thinking, that I think actually help us open our minds to the "new wine" that Jesus gives us, and you know Jesus has saved the best for last.  I think the reason people fail is that they open their minds up, but they don't have any good coaching, training, or experience at how to repair their own ways of thinking.  They don't know why they went nuts in the first place, and they have no clue what to do differently to keep it from recurring.  So now they have the worst of both worlds; they are crazy and "hopelessly" ill-connected thoughts both.  That's why loving support is so important.  Nobody is going to give you "bad" love and support over here.

Of course I can't tell you if and when you'll know, without doubt, that you're kingdom thinking. The Lord brings you there at His schedule.  I just like to be ready, like a cleared calendar.  Wink

That said, I really have a desire to write some hopefully useful materials about this "kingdom thinking" thing I keep talking about.  Grin

Oh yeah, and that part about returning roses?  Your negative experiences could be the fertilizer that feeds them.  Wink

Alan
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« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2012, 04:39:02 PM »

I dunno, Alan, I feel as though you have too much faith in me. I think it will take me quite a while to get to kingdom thinking. Still, I guess one can only hope and try!  Grin

Well the reason is that you seem open to try out different kinds of thinking, and then you put your own spin on it.  A lot of people aren't so honest, but it may not be that they are hiding something.  It's just that they have a lot invested in "having to be right."  They see new ways of thinking as threats to their old ways of thinking, not building blocks for an even greater awareness.

That is important because I think the main key to the kingdom is a spirit of poverty.  You come across as very ego-free, and that, to me, is the very direction you go toward a spirit of poverty.

"blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God."

A spirit of poverty is one that is unattached to any worldly item, or for that matter even beliefs, and of course "being right."  Some people might take that and say I mean that there is no right or wrong.  I'm just saying that that only beliefs any of us know are the things we believe we know, and like St. Paul says, anyone who thinks he knows doesn't yet know as he ought to know.  So that's how you keep it humble, by "listening" to people.  And think about when God spoke from the cloud and told us "listen to Him."  So when we listen to the least of Jesus's brothers, we are listening to Him IMO.  And listening means setting aside our agenda and out preconceived notions and biases, and just being open to another person's heartfelt story or ideas.

While that takes a spirit of poverty, it also takes confidence that you aren't going to go crazy because you listened to somebody's idea that was wrong.  Over a period of time, Other People's Stupidity can really get you down, but not because some person has an idea that challenges what you already think.  People don't want to hear creativity in progress; they want it digested and presented as in music or painting or finished poetry.  But I make this stuff up as I go along.

Those of us who have been bipolar symptoms have witness some extremes in thinking, that I think actually help us open our minds to the "new wine" that Jesus gives us, and you know Jesus has saved the best for last.  I think the reason people fail is that they open their minds up, but they don't have any good coaching, training, or experience at how to repair their own ways of thinking.  They don't know why they went nuts in the first place, and they have no clue what to do differently to keep it from recurring.  So now they have the worst of both worlds; they are crazy and "hopelessly" ill-connected thoughts both.  That's why loving support is so important.  Nobody is going to give you "bad" love and support over here.

Of course I can't tell you if and when you'll know, without doubt, that you're kingdom thinking. The Lord brings you there at His schedule.  I just like to be ready, like a cleared calendar.  Wink

That said, I really have a desire to write some hopefully useful materials about this "kingdom thinking" thing I keep talking about.  Grin

Oh yeah, and that part about returning roses?  Your negative experiences could be the fertilizer that feeds them.  Wink

Alan

Thanks for your kind words Alan. I like to think I'm reasonably open-minded and self-reflexive and that this helps me work towards the spirit of poverty, as you describe. I'm afraid I do get attached to certain things (mother figures in particular!), so I'm possibly not entirely there yet. But ideas? Sure, they are just that: ideas. So I do not cling to them in the way other people do. University trained me not to become too attached to ideas and ideologies.

Sorry for the delay in replying and the brief response: having one of my "bad days"  Cry
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« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2012, 05:57:13 PM »

Thanks for your kind words Alan. I like to think I'm reasonably open-minded and self-reflexive and that this helps me work towards the spirit of poverty, as you describe. I'm afraid I do get attached to certain things (mother figures in particular!), so I'm possibly not entirely there yet. But ideas? Sure, they are just that: ideas. So I do not cling to them in the way other people do. University trained me not to become too attached to ideas and ideologies.
Sorry for the delay in replying and the brief response: having one of my "bad days"  Cry

You must have an awesome university!  I'm so glad, because so many of the times they teach just the opposite.  They tell us what to think instead of how to think.

A few words paint many pictures for me, so please don't sweat replying with a short answer.  I was about done pontificating for this round, anyway.  Grin


If you want to talk about the mother figures, feel free.  If you'd rather you could open a new thread.  All I know is I've gone through some role issues (I called "role vertigo") involving my mother and my position in the family, so if that's what you're talking about I'm ready to listen for sure.   Wink  We can take it up in the member only section, or if you prefer of course you don't have to disclose personal information.

Share with me your sorrow,  Cry and I'll share with you my joy.  

Alan
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« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2012, 07:20:13 AM »

You must have an awesome university!  I'm so glad, because so many of the times they teach just the opposite.  They tell us what to think instead of how to think.

A few words paint many pictures for me, so please don't sweat replying with a short answer.  I was about done pontificating for this round, anyway.  Grin


If you want to talk about the mother figures, feel free.  If you'd rather you could open a new thread.  All I know is I've gone through some role issues (I called "role vertigo") involving my mother and my position in the family, so if that's what you're talking about I'm ready to listen for sure.   Wink  We can take it up in the member only section, or if you prefer of course you don't have to disclose personal information.

Share with me your sorrow,  Cry and I'll share with you my joy.  

Alan

I did indeed go to an awesome university - I was at the University of Oxford for 3 years, studying Music. Music is very much a humanities subject there rather than a creative arts one, and there were lots of fascinating discussions. It's a very intellectually rigorous and stimulating place Smiley

Thank you for your invitation to talk about mother figures - I might take that up in a day or so, once I've figured out how to write it down succinctly. Writing things down succinctly has never been my strong point  Tongue
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