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Author Topic: Rohr Meditations -- Week of 11/11/2012 -- INTIMACY  (Read 20426 times)
Alan
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« on: November 11, 2012, 06:29:51 AM »

November 11, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY

   
Intimacy could be described as our capacity for closeness and tenderness
toward things. It is often revealed in moments of risky self-disclosure.
Intimacy lets itself out and lets the other in. It makes all love
possible, and yet it also reveals your utter incapacity to love back as
the other deserves. Intimacy therefore encompasses a loneliness, but a
sweet loneliness. In intimate moments, you have been touched by
something you cannot yet endure or carry, but you still love the touch
and the invitation to carry. You are always larger after any intimate
encounter; in fact, it might well be the only way to enlarge
spiritually. It is always grace.

Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.
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Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2012, 02:55:51 PM »

I believe these words with a passion. I have struggled to find this, but to tell you the truth, i have only been this close to two people. Will and John. Although i could imagine that if i had this peace, and level of intimacy with either of my past husbands, they would have been successes. They would also have represented something far more spiritual to me. But oft i found myself the only part of this equation. It is a lonely marriage when this connection can not be reciprocated.

Lana
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 03:50:38 PM »

I don't think many of us have more than a couple people in our lives we can experience this with Lana. What is unfortunate is to not be able to reach this wiith a spouse.

There are so many things that can wound us along the way and make us unable or unwilling to take the risk to make ourselves vulnerable. And of course one of the worst is when you take that risk and have it turned against you by someone you should have been able to trust to handle your heart with care. Once that has happened it is hard to take the chance again, and worse to not continue the cycle to those who come after us.

I think Kelly Clarkson might express that better than I've ever heard it in this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra-Om7UMSJc

"Because Of You"


I will not make the same mistakes that you did
I will not let myself
Cause my heart so much misery
I will not break the way you did,
You fell so hard
I've learned the hard way
To never let it get that far

Because of you
I never stray too far from the sidewalk
Because of you
I learned to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt
Because of you
I find it hard to trust not only me, but everyone around me
Because of you
I am afraid

I lose my way
And it's not too long before you point it out
I cannot cry
Because I know that's weakness in your eyes
I'm forced to fake
A smile, a laugh everyday of my life
My heart can't possibly break
When it wasn't even whole to start with

Because of you
I never stray too far from the sidewalk
Because of you
I learned to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt
Because of you
I find it hard to trust not only me, but everyone around me
Because of you
I am afraid

I watched you die
I heard you cry every night in your sleep
I was so young
You should have known better than to lean on me
You never thought of anyone else
You just saw your pain
And now I cry in the middle of the night
For the same damn thing

Because of you
I never stray too far from the sidewalk
Because of you
I learned to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt
Because of you
I try my hardest just to forget everything
Because of you
I don't know how to let anyone else in
Because of you
I'm ashamed of my life because it's empty
Because of you
I am afraid

Because of you
Because of you




« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 08:30:57 AM by ncjohn » Logged

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 06:51:00 AM »

YUP...tears...this is my spousal song...but in my life version, i never got to make it right by stopping the cycle because it fell on deaf ears. But how i love this song. She sings it with such truth.

Thanks John, you know JUST the things i need to know...yer so cool like that!!!

Lana
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 07:58:31 AM »

November 12, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY

   
As I studied accounts of the Resurrection, I came to see what is now
completely obvious to me: these texts reveal both the Christ and the
True Self as a deep capacity for intimacy with yourself and with
everything, probably including life itself. Starting with Christ’s
“white as snow” robe and his “face like lightning” (Matthew 28:3 [1]),
we have initial statements of perfect transparency, accessibility,
and radiant visibility. The True Self is a shared and sharable self, or
it is not the True Self.

[1]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28:3&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV

In John’s account . . . Mary Magdalene knows Jesus not by sight but when
he pronounces her first name (20:16 [2]). She completes the exchange by
calling him “Master” in return. Jesus’ puzzling “Do not cling to
me” (20:17 [3]) statement is what makes true intimacy possible.
Intimacy is possible only between two calm identities and is not the
same as melding or fusing into one. As we say in non-dual teaching,
“Not two but not one either.”

Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.
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Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 12:57:08 PM »

Jesus’ puzzling “Do not cling to
me” (20:17 [3]) statement is what makes true intimacy possible.


I have never heard this before...going to read up where it said it was in the bible.

Lana

John 20:17:3 i think?
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 06:51:29 AM »

November 13, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY
   
Which comes first? Does feeling safe and held by God allow you to deal
with others in the same way? Or does human tenderness allow you to
imagine that God must be the same, but infinitely so? I do not suppose
it really matters where you start; the important thing is that you get
in on the big secret from one side or the other.

The big and hidden secret is this: an infinite God seeks and desires
intimacy with the human soul. Once you experience such intimacy, only
the intimate language of lovers describes what is going on for you:
mystery, tenderness, singularity, specialness, changing the rules “for
me,” nakedness, risk, ecstasy, incessant longing, and, of course also
suffering. This is the mystical vocabulary of the saints.

Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.
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Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 08:07:41 AM »

The big and hidden secret is this: an infinite God seeks and desires
intimacy with the human soul. Once you experience such intimacy, only
the intimate language of lovers describes what is going on for you:
mystery, tenderness, singularity, specialness, changing the rules “for
me,” nakedness, risk, ecstasy, incessant longing, and, of course also
suffering. This is the mystical vocabulary of the saints.


Gosh, it does not feel right to use such language with God, but i too
felt these things with my son, and it was not inappropriate or dirty.
It is almost embarrassing to say such things because you are hoping that
others do not view you as a sexual predator due to the age and relationship.
But it was all that special, as is the relationship with God, extracting all things
that seem to others as inappropriate. Hard to wrap your mind around.

Lana
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 08:31:17 AM »

Now that I think about it, there is intimacy in one of my favorite writings, the Stanzas of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross -- from his book Dark Night of the Soul.

   STANZAS OF THE SOUL

      1. One dark night,
      fired with love's urgent longings
        -- ah, the sheer grace! --
       I went out unseen,
      my house being now all stilled.
      
      2. In darkness, and secure,
        by the secret ladder, disguised,
       -- ah, the sheer grace! --
      in darkness and concealment,
      my house being now all stilled.

      3. On that glad night,
        in secret, for no one saw me,
      nor did I look at anything,
      with no other light or guide
      than the one that burned in my heart.

      4. This guided me
           more surely than the light of noon
      to where he was awaiting me
       -- him I knew so well --
      there in a place where no one appeared.

      5. O guiding night!
        O night more lovely than the dawn!
      O night that has united
      the Lover with his beloved,
      transforming the beloved in her Lover.

      6. Upon my flowering breast
        which I kept wholly for him alone,
      there he lay sleeping,
      and I caressing him
      there in a breeze from the fanning cedars.

      7. When the breeze blew from the turret,
        as I parted his hair,
        it wounded my neck
      with its gentle hand,
      suspending all my senses.

      8. I abandoned and forgot myself,
        laying my face on my Beloved;
      all things ceased; I went out from myself,
      leaving my cares
      forgotten among the lilies.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 08:33:27 AM by Alan » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 02:22:11 AM »

November 14, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY

   
One’s biggest secrets and deepest desires are usually revealed to
others, and even discovered by ourselves, in the presence of sorrow,
failure, or need when we are very vulnerable and when one feels entirely
safe in the arms of someone’s love. That is why all “little ones”
have a huge head start. When vulnerable exchange happens, there is
always a broadening of being on both sides. We are bigger and better
people afterward. Those who never go there always remain small and
superficial and unconnected to themselves. You would normally experience
it as a lack of substance or even reality in a person. People who have
avoided all intimacy normally do not know who they are at any
depth—and cannot tell others who they are.

Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 03:04:31 AM »

November 15, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY
   
Fullness in a person cannot permit love because there are no openings,
no handles, no give-and-take, and no deep hunger. It is like trying to
attach two inflated balloons to one another. Human vulnerability gives
the soul an immense head start on its travels—maybe the only start for
any true spiritual journey. Thus the Risen Christ starts us off by
revealing the human wounds of God, God’s total solidarity with human
suffering. He starts with self-disclosure from the divine side, which
ideally leads to self-disclosure from our side. The Bible first opened
up for me in the 1960s when the II Vatican Council said that divine
revelation was not God disclosing ideas about God, but actually God
disclosing “himself” (sic). Quickly Scripture, and religion itself,
became not mere doctrines or moralisms for me, but lovemaking, an actual
mutual exchange of being and intimacy.


Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 03:23:37 AM »

November 16, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY
    
The mystics, and those like Moses (Exodus 33:12-23 [1]), Jesus (John
5:19-20 [2]), and John the Divine (1 John 1:1-3 [3]) who personally claim to
know God, are always aware that they have been let in on a big and
wondrous love secret. Anyone not privy to an inner dialogue, that is,
some kind of I-Thou relationship, would call such people presumptuous,
emotional, foolish, or even arrogant. How could they presume to claim an
actual union with the divine? But this is without doubt “God’s
secret, in which all the jewels of wisdom and knowledge are hidden”
(Colossians 2:2-3 [4]). The insiders know that “anyone who loves is born
of God and knows God. Anyone who fails to love can never know God,
because God is love” (1 John 4:7-8 [5]). Such an amazing, but
seldom-quoted, line lets you in on the big secret and also makes it
universal and available to all.

Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2012, 07:20:51 AM »

November 16, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY
    
The mystics, and those like Moses (Exodus 33:12-23 [1]), Jesus (John
5:19-20 [2]), and John the Divine (1 John 1:1-3 [3]) who personally claim to
know God, are always aware that they have been let in on a big and
wondrous love secret. Anyone not privy to an inner dialogue, that is,
some kind of I-Thou relationship, would call such people presumptuous,
emotional, foolish, or even arrogant. How could they presume to claim an
actual union with the divine? But this is without doubt “God’s
secret, in which all the jewels of wisdom and knowledge are hidden”
(Colossians 2:2-3 [4]). The insiders know that “anyone who loves is born
of God and knows God. Anyone who fails to love can never know God,
because God is love” (1 John 4:7-8 [5]). Such an amazing, but
seldom-quoted, line lets you in on the big secret and also makes it
universal and available to all.

Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.


I feel this post.  Intellectually I knew nearly a year ago, that the kingdom was at hand, and then I knew without any doubt or chance to be persuaded out of it, that the kingdom Jesus talked about is in fact for us to enjoy while here on earth, and not just something that *might* happen after we die.

So then along about this March I started having sensations of being in it, and I was pretty convinced.  I was in it in my head but not really in my "heart's experience," and the world was changing by the moment for the better.  But there was a lot of work the Lord had to do in me still, and I had some of the most manic (and sinful and even illegal) behavior that I've experienced yet during the 11 year ordeal.  But it kept getting better until finally, on October 3, something just "snapped" and bingo!  I have peace and serenity nearly all the time, and when I lose it, I gain it back within usually a few minutes or in a couple cases, hours.  Compare that to things that bug me for days, or that I never let go of, in the past.

So here's the rub.  How do I speak of this to other people?  If I praise God and say I was given healing and that my eyes were opened, then it sounds like God is doing me favors and so nyaa nyaa nyaa He doesn't treat me the same as everyone else.  If I say, "well I went through purgatory, hell, more purgatory and back," then it sounds like I think I'm a martyr.  If I say, "I studied blah blah blah for X hours and Y years," then it sounds like I think I'm better than everyone else because I earned my way into the kingdom in 11 years and there are saints for whom it took much longer.  It was actually hurting me, even physically, when people would do this because I sooo wanted to help them gain courage and see this is something they can have too -- but as my pastor counseled me, this is something that I have to press.  Even in my wife I can do so much and then it's up to the Lord to get the timing.

Since 10/3, though, I have felt fewer times that I need to explain myself or even declare myself.  As a "baby" kingdom person, I am all excited and keep wanting to play with my new toy, which I call fruit of the spirit and my psychiatrist calls a "calm and clear mind."  So I spend half of my time in the kingdom, thinking about being in the kingdom.  And I feel like I should mention it because I know others seek it even if they believe they will never attain it, or be worthy or whatever (which actually makes it harder for them I'd think, in most cases) so I want to tell people that someone who was sick and broken and crazy and outcast, made it in.  The last shall be first, and all.

Better yet, though, as the Lord continues to purge the hidden crevasses and renew my heart and mind, it becomes less of a novelty and not on my mind -- and I am better able to fix my attention on the other person in the conversation.  So rather then speak of my kingdom, I use this calmness and the words given to me by the Holy Spirit more, thus reducing the ability my ego has to get in the way and self-announce either due to pride, self-defense, annoying verbosity, or all of the above.

Richard has clearly seen many souls go into the kingdom.  It seems to me the first thing people have to do is instead of keeping Low Expectations by telling themselves they'll never reach the kingdom, or never learn to think mystically, or never be a saint, is to be like a child and start imagining themselves in it.  Imagine that I'm in the kingdom, but I'm in a stage setting the "happens" to look like the same worlds everybody else is in.  What would that feel like?  When others get angry, what would I feel if I were truly producing fruit of the spirit?

My wish is for people entering the kingdom to become so commonplace that it reaches critical mass and becomes the norm rather than the far-away "I'm not that lucky" or "I'm not worthy of anything like that" thinking.  When more people start taking Jesus at His word, pondering the so-called "mysteries" and paradox He gives us to ponder without talking ourselves out of it because either doesn't make sense or doesn't apply to us, seeing ourselves as just as valuable to God and just as much His children as any saint -- basically allowing ourselves to imagine it and even allow ourselves to yearn to taste it -- I think we'll start to see this happening.

Alan

« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 07:23:53 AM by Alan » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2012, 08:02:01 AM »

The big and hidden secret is this: an infinite God seeks and desires
intimacy with the human soul. Once you experience such intimacy, only
the intimate language of lovers describes what is going on for you:
mystery, tenderness, singularity, specialness, changing the rules “for
me,” nakedness, risk, ecstasy, incessant longing, and, of course also
suffering. This is the mystical vocabulary of the saints.


Gosh, it does not feel right to use such language with God, but i too
felt these things with my son, and it was not inappropriate or dirty.
It is almost embarrassing to say such things because you are hoping that
others do not view you as a sexual predator due to the age and relationship.
But it was all that special, as is the relationship with God, extracting all things
that seem to others as inappropriate. Hard to wrap your mind around.

Lana

Hello Lana,

I am new to this forum. I'm Justicia Smiley

I empathise with your predicament. I had this level of intimacy with my beloved mother figure and people (including my counsellor) presumed we were having some lesbian fling Sad Why do people think intimacy has to be a sexual thing?! It boggles the mind of those who have been swept into the arms of our wonderful Creator.
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2012, 04:45:14 AM »

November 17, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

INTIMACY
   
So how do you communicate to others what is inherently a secret? Or can
you? How can the secret become “unhidden”? It becomes unhidden when
people stop hiding—from God, themselves, and at least one other
person. The emergence of our True Self is actually the big disclosure of
the secret. Such risky self-disclosure is what I mean by intimacy, and
intimacy is the way that love is transmitted. Some say the word comes
from the Latin intimus, referring to that which is interior or inside.
Some say its older meaning is found by in timor, or “into fear.” In
either case, the point is clear: intimacy happens when we reveal and
expose our insides, and this is always scary. One never knows if the
other can receive what is exposed, will respect it, or will run fast in
the other direction. One must be prepared to be rejected. It is always a
risk. The pain of rejection after self-disclosure is so great that it
often takes a lifetime for people to risk it again.

Prayer:
Loving God, allow me to experience intimacy with you.
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2012, 10:57:02 AM »

Hello Lana,

I am new to this forum. I'm Justicia Smiley

I empathise with your predicament. I had this level of intimacy with my beloved mother figure and people (including my counsellor) presumed we were having some lesbian fling Sad Why do people think intimacy has to be a sexual thing?! It boggles the mind of those who have been swept into the arms of our wonderful Creator.


I am sorry, i just seen this, i must have missed it being away for a good week. BTW, greetings and a warm welcome from us here at WF. I know what you are feeling as well, even when i hug my sister in public, we get looks. I try and add "sis" into our conversations to greet their ears, but i often wonder why i even should. But in the poem i find it tooo intimate for spiritual description as it borders/is descriptively lustful almost. Do not get me wrong, i am no prude, but my spiritual journey is totally, and absolutely different than this. I can simply not go there with God.

Lana
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2012, 11:52:01 AM »

FYI

Justicia has not been able to log in for a couple days, because for reasons John and I can't figure out yet, it's been "banning" her.  I'm contacting Matt about helping us resolve it, and about upgrading our software to a version that's supposed to be better.

Meanwhile I'm shutting of on-site registrations entirely; since we get about 30 robots registering a day, that will remove one distraction that makes all this messy.  John and I can still add people; we just wouldn't have any people just happen to see the site and sign up -- not sure that's even happened in over five years anyway.  The only people I know of who have used the on site registration in years, I knew about anyway so I could have done it.

On second thought, I went to shut them off and it turns out there was a setting to make our registrations harder for bots to get through.  So I put it to the highest setting, and if any more come in soon I'll turn it all the way off.  It's the "Captcha" thing where you have to figure out what letters are showing, it has different difficulty levels.

Alan
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2012, 01:07:58 PM »

So much for increasing security on registrations.  A bot got through already, so now registrations are shut off.

The mystery continues.  I have no clue at this point.

John, what do you think of just totally removing all bans, since I have registration shut off?  In the next version, if we need the bans in place, we can just shut off registration then, wouldn't you think?

If we ever get to the point where we're advertising or otherwise wanting to attract new people other than by invitation, we can worry about it then?

Or do the bans have value other than as connected with registration?

Alan

Update:  I just talked to Matt.  He doesn't have an explanation for what is happening, but he is going to try upgrading our software, as early as today!  Cool

So I figure we can still get rid of the bans, unless John you can think of why not...

Alan
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 01:23:45 PM by Alan » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 01:59:12 PM »

the pms think i might be a bot...they ask me to verify by copying
a code first, before i can post a pm to anyone!

I'm big, but i am not a bot!!!!

Honest! Cross my heart!

Lana
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2012, 02:26:16 PM »

the pms think i might be a bot...they ask me to verify by copying
a code first, before i can post a pm to anyone!

I'm big, but i am not a bot!!!!

Honest! Cross my heart!

Lana

That's pretty weird.  Does it do it every time?  Maybe it goes for just so many and then quits?  Huh


I just heard from Justicia.  She was still banned as of 25 minutes ago.  Sad

Alan
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2012, 07:47:31 PM »

I hope she gets back on...it is terrible being out of the Shire!

And ever since i opened this new account, it has the pm's set up like that.
Weird, but true! I thought it was just how new accounts were set up.
Since mine was an older one, i just figured it was not updated.

Lana
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Alan
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piggysiggy
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 05:25:53 AM »

I hope she gets back on...it is terrible being out of the Shire!

And ever since i opened this new account, it has the pm's set up like that.
Weird, but true! I thought it was just how new accounts were set up.
Since mine was an older one, i just figured it was not updated.

Lana

I don't know what's going on with the PM's.  I just went through and looked at all the permission settings I could find, and nothing about that.  Maybe whatever is wrong that is causing Justicia's problem is causing yours, too?  I don't know; I hope Matt can get us upgraded pretty soon.

Alan
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... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 08:19:08 PM »

This is so beautiful and so true.I have such intimacy with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. Some times in the Eucharist I get so lost in that love that he shed all his Blood for me, I feel enveloped by Heaven like John describes in Revelation. Other times it is in prayer at home, praying in tongues, being enveloped by the Holy Spirit the Love that is present, makes me long for more, but the only way, I will get more is to leave this earth. Therefore, I'm lonely in my physical body, wanting the forever communion with God's love that awaits in heaven. That Holy Fire of love, no eye can see, no mind can bare,least we die. This leaves the emptiness,but yet at the same time that intimacy with him in the Holy Spirit and the light of his love being reflected to me.
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piggysiggy
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 08:30:56 PM »

This is so beautiful and so true.I have such intimacy with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. Some times in the Eucharist I get so lost in that love that he shed all his Blood for me, I feel enveloped by Heaven like John describes in Revelation. Other times it is in prayer at home, praying in tongues, being enveloped by the Holy Spirit the Love that is present, makes me long for more, but the only way, I will get more is to leave this earth. Therefore, I'm lonely in my physical body, wanting the forever communion with God's love that awaits in heaven. That Holy Fire of love, no eye can see, no mind can bare,least we die. This leaves the emptiness,but yet at the same time that intimacy with him in the Holy Spirit and the light of his love being reflected to me.

Sounds like you're already doing pretty well.  I wonder what heaven after you die might add to it!  Smiley

Alan
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 08:46:10 PM by Alan » Logged

... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 10:22:46 PM »

This is so beautiful and so true.I have such intimacy with Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. Some times in the Eucharist I get so lost in that love that he shed all his Blood for me, I feel enveloped by Heaven like John describes in Revelation. Other times it is in prayer at home, praying in tongues, being enveloped by the Holy Spirit the Love that is present, makes me long for more, but the only way, I will get more is to leave this earth. Therefore, I'm lonely in my physical body, wanting the forever communion with God's love that awaits in heaven. That Holy Fire of love, no eye can see, no mind can bare,least we die. This leaves the emptiness,but yet at the same time that intimacy with him in the Holy Spirit and the light of his love being reflected to me.

Sounds like you're already doing pretty well.  I wonder what heaven after you die might add to it!  Smiley

Alan


Hi Alan, I can't even imagine what that Perfect Love of God's presence in Heaven would be like. It is beyond my human understanding.  What I get is only an echo or shadow of things to come. I believe it is beyond any thing we can image we can think of. The awe of being in the presence of God.and Pure Love, no emptiness,no pain,no hate  ect... Wink
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