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Author Topic: Rohr Meditations -- Week of 10/7/2012 -- THE FOUR SPLITS  (Read 11164 times)
ncjohn
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2012, 01:37:40 PM »

Wow Lana, I thought I was aware of most of the crap you went through but it is just incredibly sad that you would have also had to endure this while simply trying to protect Will.

As I was told on more than one occasion by a former pastor from our local parish, sometimes the best we can do is to WANT to want to forgive. Even getting to the first wanting is difficult at times though as I know all too well from my own experience.
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"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2012, 06:48:53 PM »

Forgiving her was the easy part...really.

Here in lies the difficulty, when someone doubts my story or intentions...MAJOR trigger!

Then i get all nasty up in their face over the details of the other ones actions, and can
not believe for the life of me why i am defending myself, AGAIN. So it APPEARS i am still
pissed and have not forgiven this lady. But this lady is long gone, what still remains is the
lac of faith my "friends/family" have when these topics come up.

I am not trying to kiss their patootie, or get a pat on the back, but heck, why do i always
have to face responses like, "when are you gonna move forward" and let it go, you need
to stop holding grudges" and the big old killer, "now that is not very Christian of you *insert
bla bla bla lecture*"

I never asked for  them to fix things, or grant me with this lovely wisdom, but heck, what
ever happened to validating a persons hurt heart, not the situation....I do it all the time.
I do not care at all what has happened when someone is upset, just that they are, and my
heart goes out to their pain, not their judgment. That is a killer move when someone you
love does this to you.

BTW, no one here has EVER treated me like this, and it's why i love being here .... realness!

Lana
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ncjohn
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« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2012, 06:08:29 AM »

Lana, I totally understand that trigger of being doubted or thought to be a liar. I know where that comes from for me and I know at least one cause of where it comes from for you. And you're right that it is that much worse when it comes from those in our own family or the circle we call "friends".

I had to endure that with my youngest sister not that long ago who told my mother bald-faced lies about things she claimed I had said when what I said was exactly the opposite. In the end the relationship with my mother, which I never had growing up and which I had been nurturing, likely came to an end as she bought this steaming pile of crap as the truth. It was like my father came back from the grave to kill things once again.  Cry  I have to admit that I have not yet reached the "want to want to forgive" point in this even though I fully understand my sister's sick motivation and the insecurity that brought it all on.
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"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
Alan
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« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2012, 08:21:28 AM »

I have to admit that I have not yet reached the "want to want to forgive" point in this even though I fully understand my sister's sick motivation and the insecurity that brought it all on.

That's a good observation, John.

One thing that could help but is probably very difficult to conjure, is gratitude.  Even if they were bad to me, I suppose at the very least I learn from them.  But before I could get to that point I toyed with the Beatitude about, if they say terrible calumny about me then I'm blessed.  Fine, but that doesn't make me feel blessed.  Eventually I was able to notice that I was aware of things around me that others aren't, and it was because of those experiences that I learned.  So I was made wise by attacks against my knowledge.  I have never been handled like that from family members, but I have certainly had my share of being marginalized and truth I speak being corrupted, ignored, or turned into a weapon and used wrongly.

Back to the Beatitude.  One part that used to weaken it for me was it's reference to "for me"

Matt 5:11
"Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me."

Then I realized something.  Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light, right?  So any time that I'm showing a good way, telling the truth, and bringing light to a topic, if I get excoriated for saying those things, then BAM!  I qualify for blessing under this verse!  Cool

Not to mention, I pity the other miserable wretches because not only are they stupid, obnoxious and destructive, but when they go off on me for telling the truth, then they are speaking against Truth itself, which is Jesus.  So yeah, when somebody talks jive on me when I am the one that's right, they are attacking Jesus and I am blessed.

Of course I supposed I'm only blessed if I handle it "gracefully," though.  I wonder if I could take them all out with an Uzi whether that would disqualify me from my blessing?  Grin

Alan
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ncjohn
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« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2012, 09:04:56 AM »


 I wonder if I could take them all out with an Uzi whether that would disqualify me from my blessing?  Grin

Alan


I think that sounds like another of those win-win-win scenarios. You get to forgive them. Then you get to ask their forgiveness for your actions. Then you get to forgive yourself for those actions.  Grin

It brings to mind again one of my favorite quotes, from Heinrich Heine:

I have a most peaceable disposition. My desires are for a modest hut, a thatched roof, but a good bed, good food, very fresh milk and butter, flowers in front of my window and a few pretty trees by my door. And should the good Lord wish to make me really happy, he will allow me the pleasure of seeing about six or seven of my enemies hanged upon those trees.
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"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2012, 01:12:51 PM »

I wonder if I could take them all out with an Uzi whether that would disqualify me from my blessing? 


Only if it's amo is Aqua Sacra...



 Grin
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Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2012, 01:22:06 PM »

I think that people totally give too much power to the blame game. If you do not feel that you are worthy of this behavior, then why did it happen, who did it and so on seems to be our only recourse. THAT is what leads to such out of control anger and futility at not getting your questions answered.

Point blank, Jesus died so that we could have free will. We do not make all the best decisions, and therefore there will ALWAYS be a backlash or ripple effect of others actions. It never matters why or who made something happen...it just is what it is. Problem is not to figure this who and why blame game, but see it as a daily way to see God through this act. Not that he did it, but that he is on the curb with you and willing to hold your hand, listen to your heart, seek a wondrous relationship with him, and he is soooo ready to give you the strength to go on, and to get through anything that is before you.

If HE can not change what we do, HE has offered his services to get us through things

Lana
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Alan
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« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2012, 02:43:47 PM »


If HE can not change what we do, HE has offered his services to get us through things


So true!  Personally I don't think He even wants to change our behavior by intervention -- how could we ever learn to drive if He never took His hands off the steering wheel?

Alan
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Lanasshoebox
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« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2012, 11:38:10 PM »

No, but we all to well know just how hard and painful it is to know your child is walking into something you can not stop from happening. He is just that, our parent, our teacher and friend...it hurts him to see us in pain. Yet he is ever near looking to do something, even if it is simply just to be near to us...if we let him.

Lana
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ncjohn
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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2012, 07:44:41 AM »


It never matters why or who made something happen...it just is what it is.
 

I'm not sure I could go quite that far. If we don't take the time to look into why bad things happen we don't have any way of figuring out how to prevent them from happening again in the future. I agree that doing so with the major intention being to place blame is way off the mark and solves nothing.

I constantly make that point with the people that work for me. They are well aware that I want the system to run smoothly and things to be as easy and mistake-proof as possible. So when something goes wrong I do dig into the "why". They know very well though that they're not going to get blamed and not going to get in trouble for telling me--which they usually do before I even ask--because they know I'm just trying to make the system better for them and for everyone else.

I don't think we can just automatically accept that everything just "is what it is". Part of our "job" in taking care of the "least of his brothers" is to make things better for them and to do that we have to know what isn't working and why so we can try to improve it.

My two cents...and worth every penny!
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"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
Alan
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« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2012, 09:22:37 AM »

I don't think we can just automatically accept that everything just "is what it is". Part of our "job" in taking care of the "least of his brothers" is to make things better for them and to do that we have to know what isn't working and why so we can try to improve it.

I totally agree with this part of it, John.  I used to sit and try to figure out what I did wrong, and what I should have done differently, and people would say, "you have to quit stewing over it and get up and try again."  Then I'd want to smash them in the face with a baseball bat, because it was clear they really did need that.  What do they do, go to a rifle range and shoot and never look at where they hit before shooting again?

Also I think there is an enormous power into not "needing" to place blame; it is more than refraining from placing blame -- it is an overwhelming lack of interest in knowing.  In your examples, you are trying to accomplish certain tasks efficiently, so it isn't about spirituality and desire to know "who done it" when you talk to your employees.  It's about cause, not blame.

But when it's personal, and knowing the answer can't possibly help in any way, that's when I really "feel" what Lana wrote.

For me, I found true healing when I let go of very major things.  For many years I felt I was not getting what I was supposed to in life, and it was the fault of the parish council members who were jerks, or the finance committee, or Fr. Carr who sent me into a tailspin that would be my Dark Night kickoff.  Or my close "friend" the clerk, who went behind my back and initiated the loss of my career.  I would think, "I wonder what Bonny would say if she knew I was having trouble keeping food on the table for my six kids, and it's because she betrayed me?"  Then, of course, was the primadonna bitch psychiatrist "Connie Marsh" who signed an order for me to be locked up, based on fourth hand hearsay and never even having met me.  If psychiatric patients were taken seriously and treated as "real people" I might have sued for loss of civil rights.  Or the company psychologist who lied to me and said he was setting up a doctor appointment when it was really a trap for Marsh to capture me without ever an actual professional talking to me.

These things took away my career, my social standing, and honestly I'd have to say some of my kids looked at me as less because of my not being a "producer" or having interesting, important, and lucrative jobs like all their friends' parents.  Instead, THEIR dad was sitting around, sponging off others, doing crazy things and acting whacked out religious and in other ways.  They loved me, but wanted me out of the picture.  One even got a scholarship by writing a paper of Why Should They Choose Her for the scholarship -- based on her being successful in her endeavors while having been raised in a household with psychotic parents -- and she got the scholarship.  Yeah, I was the quintessential fool, all right.  Worse than a clown, because nobody was laughing.  All of this, of course was the fault of those people I described above.

So really the "damage" is done, and I've squeezed all the lessons out of it.  Then when I came into the kingdom, I realized how beautiful life is, and what the Lord has done for me.  All these people doing these things are just carrying out whatever they're programmed to do, and meanwhile the Lord showed me that if I took any one of them out of my past, I wouldn't have been truly mortified to the point where I finally crossed over into the second half.  So now I don't look at "who done it" with a blaming thought, but more like they were all characters in my spiritual development.  Like at the end of a dramatic play you clap for both hero and villain during the curtain calls.  Bravo!  Bravo all!

Another thing I learned is that my worldly enemy is my spiritual friend.  That does not mean that worldly friends are spiritual enemies -- they are our comfort.  Through the enemies we will get spiritually strong; with our friends, especially our friend in Jesus, we will be able to get through the tough times.  And with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we do not have to worry about being deceived who is enemy and who is friend.  Doesn't mean we'll always be correct, but we'll always be right.   Wink

Alan
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 09:36:10 AM by Alan » Logged

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ncjohn
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« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2012, 12:44:09 PM »

Some very good points Alan. You're right that my examples were a little skewed because they are work examples rather than personal, though I have personal examples at work also. I have used the same process though with my kids on a personal basis with great success though the turmoil of the last couple years with my son has been less productive for me.

I have been far less successful in the worst of the personal ones because of the "trigger" aspect that is activated in those cases. Like with Lana, being cast as a liar--especially when the truth is seemingly so blindingly obvious if anyone would take two seconds to look--just brings one to the point of total exasperation. In my case it triggers me back to my childhood in ways that don't allow my rational mind to interact with at the moment. When it is that past child that is crying out in pain it is much harder to just "accept the reality and move on" since nurturing and protecting the children in our lives is just the natural state for most of us. That wounded inner child continues to wail even while we're trying to rationally figure a way out of things.

Obviously still very much a work in progress for me relative to this whole subject.
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This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
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« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2012, 12:55:58 PM »

Some very good points Alan. You're right that my examples were a little skewed because they are work examples rather than personal, though I have personal examples at work also. I have used the same process though with my kids on a personal basis with great success though the turmoil of the last couple years with my son has been less productive for me.

I am very much in agreement with your work examples.  Especially as an engineer working in the shop -- that relationship is one that took me a long time to build and few engineers did.  They knew I was honest and wanted to find the root cause, but was not a blamer.

Oops I have to go all of a sudden ... I'll get back to you on the rest.  Smiley

Alan
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« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2012, 03:50:17 PM »

John i have to agree with you that the who and why do matter, but not first. It is like this, you find a hurt person on ski patrol...you act, get the first aid kit, stretcher etc. The how and why are not important until you seek healing. That is what i meant. I think that Seeking the who what where why and when before you apply pressure to the wound could loose the patient. So if we heal, and then go over things latter...that is when the who...etc applies.

Is that clearer...i think i missed mentioning this part while i wrote the post.

Lana
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« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2012, 03:53:01 PM »

John i have to agree with you that the who and why do matter, but not first. It is like this, you find a hurt person on ski patrol...you act, get the first aid kit, stretcher etc. The how and why are not important until you seek healing. That is what i meant. I think that Seeking the who what where why and when before you apply pressure to the wound could loose the patient. So if we heal, and then go over things latter...that is when the who...etc applies.

Is that clearer...i think i missed mentioning this part while i wrote the post.

Lana

Ok, that makes sense. Kind of like when your kid falls off the roof they weren't supposed to be playing on. You patch them up and then tell them "when you feel better I'm going to kill you for doing that!"
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"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
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« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2012, 03:56:17 PM »

Exactly!!!!

So if you do not seek the healing in accepting Gods plan, and that it should bring you TO him, then you can loose your way by not focusing on the healing part first.

Lana
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« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2012, 04:25:26 PM »

I have been far less successful in the worst of the personal ones because of the "trigger" aspect that is activated in those cases. Like with Lana, being cast as a liar--especially when the truth is seemingly so blindingly obvious if anyone would take two seconds to look--just brings one to the point of total exasperation. In my case it triggers me back to my childhood in ways that don't allow my rational mind to interact with at the moment.

One thing, at least, that my family and friends know that I don't lie to them.  I may do other things wrong, but not that.  So to me, it's always been in professional or social situations that I was challenged.

Maybe that made it less difficult for me than it would have if I hadn't such a supportive family, both my growing-up family and my current family.

But as far as the trigger, I do know triggers, and have had to deal with them.  I can focus all I want to that I'm not going to get upset next time X or Y happens, but then they do and I get upset before I even knew what happened.  And something, things come out of my mouth at that time explaining the situation in very short terms.

Quote
Obviously still very much a work in progress for me relative to this whole subject.

With God all things are possible.  And personally I've found some ability to reprogram my subconscious.  I can't control it because it's doing 2,000 things at once and I can only focus on a few.  But I can inject seeds of thought that grow, most typically when I'm not thinking about them, and eventually change the tone of the whole place -- the place that it my mind.

Alan
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« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2012, 08:16:52 PM »


And personally I've found some ability to reprogram my subconscious.  I can't control it because it's doing 2,000 things at once and I can only focus on a few.  But I can inject seeds of thought that grow, most typically when I'm not thinking about them, and eventually change the tone of the whole place -- the place that it my mind.

Alan

I've had some success with that. I think of it in terms of introducing a virus into my internal hard drive to try to wipe out selective parts of the old code. The problem is that the old code contains some very adaptive intelligence that sometimes finds a way around the virus, or attacks it from an unexpected angle.

As I said, it's a work in progress.
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"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
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