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Author Topic: Rohr Meditations -- Week of 4/29/2012 -- The Spiral of Violence  (Read 6922 times)
Alan
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piggysiggy
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« on: April 30, 2012, 09:10:03 AM »

April 29, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE

    
Traditional Catholic moral teaching says there are three sources of
evil—the world, the flesh and the devil. Dom Helder Camara, who was
the holy and wise archbishop of Recife, Brazil, taught this in terms of
“a spiral of violence” spiraling from the bottom up. “The world”
(systemic evil) is at the root a lie, in the middle is “the flesh”
(personal evil), and at the top is “the devil” (evil disguised as
“good power” to enforce the first two).

Up to now in human history most people’s moral thinking has been
overwhelmingly oriented around the personal evils of “the flesh.”
There was not too much knowledge of the social foundations of evil
behavior until very recently.

The Biblical Prophets of Judaism were the unique and inspired group who
exposed all three sources of evil and it’s also why they have been
largely ignored, as was Jesus, the greatest of the Jewish Prophets. They
didn’t concentrate on the flesh, but on “the world” and what we
will describe this week as “the devil,” which very often passes as
good and necessary “evil.” You see what we are up against, and why
evil continues to control so much of the human show.

Prayer:
Teach me the way to live and die.
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 09:10:50 AM »

April 30, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE

    
If you cannot recognize evil on the level of what I call the
world—then the flesh and the devil are the inevitable consequences.
They will soon be out of control, and everything is just trying to put
out brush fires on already parched fields. The world or “the system”
is the most hidden, the most disguised, and the most denied—but
foundational—level of evil. It’s the way cultures, groups,
institutions, and nations organize themselves to survive.

It is not "wrong" to survive, but for some reason group egocentricity is
never seen as evil when you have only concentrated on individual
egocentricity (“the flesh”). That is how our attention has been
diverted from the whole spiral of violence. The “devil” then stands
for all of the ways we legitimize, enforce, and justify our group
egocentricity (most wars; idolization of wealth, power, and show;
tyrannical governments; many penal systems; etc.) while not calling it
egocentricity!

Once any social system exists it has to maintain and assert itself at
all costs. Things we do inside of that system are no longer seen as evil
because “everyone is doing it.” That's why North Koreans can march
lockstep to a communist tyranny, and why American consumers can “shop
till they drop" and make no moral connections whatsoever. You see now
why most evil is hidden and denied, and why Jesus said “Father,
forgive them, they don't know what they are doing” (Luke 23:34 [1]).

[1]: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%20%2023:34&version=NIV;MSG;KJV;DRA


Prayer:
Teach me the way to live and die.
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 10:28:56 AM »

Things we do inside of that system are no longer seen as evil
because “everyone is doing it.”


This is why I have such a problem with government sponsoriing things that are morally objectionable. Promoting gambling because it provides a good tax base. Legalizing drugs or prostitution because then we can regulate and tax them. Cheapening marriage through such concepts as "no fault" divorce laws.

When the government legalizes something it implies that it must be morally acceptable and ethical, which often could not be further from the truth. For all its flaws at the least the church does continue to stand for its moral ideals even while realizing we are human and will occasionally fail. The answer to failures isn't to throw up your hands and just say it's too hard so we'll water down what's important.

Governments need to stop sanctioning the evil as the easy way out. Of course the fact that we usually feel like we're benefitting from it, and thus support their pandering to our base desires, pretty much guarantees that it will continue to happen.
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This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 10:36:26 AM »

April 29, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE


The Biblical Prophets of Judaism were the unique and inspired group who
exposed all three sources of evil and it’s also why they have been
largely ignored, as was Jesus, the greatest of the Jewish Prophets. They
didn’t concentrate on the flesh, but on “the world” and what we
will describe this week as “the devil,” which very often passes as
good and necessary “evil.” You see what we are up against, and why
evil continues to control so much of the human show.

Prayer:
Teach me the way to live and die.


Sometimes Fr. Rohr seems to blatantly contradict himself.  Here is an example.  To say that "evil continues to control" is giving some power to some entity.  And since that entity is obviously not benevolent, in this context, then we are back to the Star Wars dualism. 
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 10:48:58 AM »

Sometimes Fr. Rohr seems to blatantly contradict himself.  Here is an example.  To say that "evil continues to control" is giving some power to some entity.  And since that entity is obviously not benevolent, in this context, then we are back to the Star Wars dualism.  

I'm not sure whether he contradicts himself, but you'll have to help me understand what you're saying.

Evil influences people to do things that are wrong, right?  The outcomes would not have happened without the influence, right?  Then how is "control" an inappropriate term to use for that?

I used to design control systems, so I apologize if my views toward the terminology are not mainstream.  But something having control doesn't mean "absolute control" or anything like that.  It means that the outcome has been influenced, or if you will distorted or corrupted because of the input.  For example, you can leave ten minutes early, then get caught along the way at a traffic accident scene and be late.  The outcome is bad; you show up late.  But I say that the accident had "control" over the arrival time even though many other things did.  Like maybe the person could have left 30 minutes sooner, but then if they did it because of the accident scene, it still has had "control" over your life.

Either that or it might help if you expounded on what you believe about the term "evil."  Not how it behaves, but the term itself.

Alan
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 11:25:28 AM »

Things we do inside of that system are no longer seen as evil
because “everyone is doing it.”


This is why I have such a problem with government sponsoriing things that are morally objectionable. Promoting gambling because it provides a good tax base. Legalizing drugs or prostitution because then we can regulate and tax them. Cheapening marriage through such concepts as "no fault" divorce laws.

When the government legalizes something it implies that it must be morally acceptable and ethical, which often could not be further from the truth. For all its flaws at the least the church does continue to stand for its moral ideals even while realizing we are human and will occasionally fail. The answer to failures isn't to throw up your hands and just say it's too hard so we'll water down what's important.

Governments need to stop sanctioning the evil as the easy way out. Of course the fact that we usually feel like we're benefitting from it, and thus support their pandering to our base desires, pretty much guarantees that it will continue to happen.

I see legalizing and taxing as two different issues.  The government is hopelessly intertwined with so many evil institutions, not to mention that they must bow before the Big Bankers who are their Ultimate Authority.  It promotes all kinds of things that it makes money from.  And for politicians it isn't how much money they save, it's how much goes through their hands that gives them their power.  For example, we tax cigarettes and pay for children's medical bills -- because somebody had the bright idea that this health menace should do something good for people.  So if you smoke you are evil.  But SOMEBODY has to smoke, because childrens' LIVES depend on it.  This type of stuff makes me want to puke.

As far as legalizing, the Church has love and desire to use as behavior mod tools.  The government has only its force to punish to influence behavior.  So I think it behooves the church and state to hash out their territory.  I think some behavior needs to be punished or the perpetrators removed from society.  But there is other behavior that is immoral as define by the Church, such as gay behavior, that I don't see as a government issue because you would want to try to change a person's sexual behavior/identity/whatever by pointing a gun at them.  NOW, whether we give them money for it that we got by pointing guns at other people, that's where I find one of the biggest problems because now we've gone beyond giving freedom for, to subsidizing immoral behavior.  And the thing about making Catholic hospitals go against their beliefs?  Inexcusable.

Alan
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 09:44:19 AM »

May 1, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE

   
In Paul it is clear that the second level of sin, “the flesh,” is
individual sin, personal naughtiness, personal mistakes; and there is no
denying that plenty of this evil exists in the world. When we point our
finger at the second level of the spiral, blaming individuals, punishing
this person or that person, making people feel guilty because they are
“bad,” we are mostly wasting our time. History will never change by
such a “one shot at a time” approach. The underlying
“agreements” are still in place. There is no point in telling a
teenage girl she should not be vain, or a young boy he should not be
greedy, when we all admire and agree upon these very things as a
culture.

Up to now there has been little attention paid to the systems that we
uncritically accept—and the evil things they do. One of the great
favors John Paul ll did was to introduce into Catholic theology the
terms “structural evil,” “institutionalized sin,” and
“corporate evil.” In that he was very prophetic, because that is the
primary way that the Biblical prophets spoke. Over 90% of their
condemnations were of “Israel” itself, of wars, alliances, corrupt
business practices, and a greedy priesthood in the temple. They first
named systemic evil, and then hoped the individual person could
“repent,” and the “devil” would have no way of taking over. Evil
must be nipped in the bud, or it is always too late.

Prayer:
Teach me the way to live and die.
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 11:02:51 AM »

Sometimes Fr. Rohr seems to blatantly contradict himself.  Here is an example.  To say that "evil continues to control" is giving some power to some entity.  And since that entity is obviously not benevolent, in this context, then we are back to the Star Wars dualism.  

I'm not sure whether he contradicts himself, but you'll have to help me understand what you're saying.

Evil influences people to do things that are wrong, right?  The outcomes would not have happened without the influence, right?  Then how is "control" an inappropriate term to use for that?

I used to design control systems, so I apologize if my views toward the terminology are not mainstream.  But something having control doesn't mean "absolute control" or anything like that.  It means that the outcome has been influenced, or if you will distorted or corrupted because of the input.  For example, you can leave ten minutes early, then get caught along the way at a traffic accident scene and be late.  The outcome is bad; you show up late.  But I say that the accident had "control" over the arrival time even though many other things did.  Like maybe the person could have left 30 minutes sooner, but then if they did it because of the accident scene, it still has had "control" over your life.

Either that or it might help if you expounded on what you believe about the term "evil."  Not how it behaves, but the term itself.

Alan

Part of what I am saying is that people are ultimately in control of their actions.  No "evil" in control there.  If Federal Bank Z decides to expand money supply in Nation A by loaning people (who can't afford a mortgage) a lot of money on housing, creating a bubble, that is truly an evil occurrence.  Well intended, but hurtful nonetheless.  Sure, there have been tons of foreclosures and fallout from the bubble, but is "evil" in control?  I would rather stay away from the noun form, because it is too easy to mix up with, say, a "force of evil" that pops up so readily in so many minds. 

We can say the expansion of money was the influenced by fear of collapse of our economy, and perhaps the fear of not being able to uphold a war in the Middle East.  If I were to use the word "evil" in reference to the occurrence, then I am using a word much more loaded than the word "accident".  I have judged the occurrence, perhaps as coming from an evil source.  Now, there is nothing wrong with judging the occurrence, I did so in the previous paragraph.  The use is as an adjective, if I remember my parts of speech correctly.  But use in the noun form is a slippery slope.  It is too easy to translate "evil in control" to "force of evil in control" which is goes back to dualism.  Sure, its a slippery slope, but it is a slippery slope often taken in my estimation.

In conclusion, I think there are better ways to describe the situation without sounding dualistic.  I could say, "the expansion of money and subsequent collapse of the housing bubble has had some control over our economy".  Now I have been more specific and left less to the imagination.  It is less dualistic speech.  The one time I heard Fr. Rohr speak on dualism, I asked him why it was that Western religion (vs Eastern) is so dualistic. (Actually, I disagree with the premise, because there is plenty of dualism in Eastern religions too, but I wanted some clarification).  He said that the West lacks the vocabulary for expressing non-dualism.  I disagree.  If we are careful about it, we can express a nondualistic universe with the English language.
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 06:29:38 AM »

May 2, 2012



Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE

   
When the first level of the spiral of violence, “the world” (group
selfishness), is not exposed for what it is, and the second level,
“the flesh,” generates out of control (murder, stealing, rape,
lying, adultery, greed), then a third level of fully justified evil
always emerges. These are systems like oppressive governments, penal
systems, legal systems, military systems, economic systems, and all the
other systems we create to control disorder and violence. They
ordinarily have a complete life of their own. These can, of course, be
good too; but when you worship them, when you let them have total power,
when you refuse to critique these systems, they can wreak the greatest
havoc in history—and they have. Any system that says “bow down and
worship me” (Matthew 4:9 [1]) is always diabolical, whether it be church,
state, or “the market.”

[1]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4:9&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV

The devil's secret is camouflage. The devil's job is to look very moral!
It has to look like we are defending some great purpose or cause, like
“making the world safe for democracy” or “keeping the bad people
off the streets.” Then you can do many evils without any guilt,
without any shame or self-doubt, but actually with a sense of
high-minded virtue. Evil must disguise itself as good (Thomas Aquinas),
and until Christians start understanding that, their capacity for
“discernment of spirits” (1 Corinthians 12:10 [2]) remains very minimal.
They are easily duped and always misled.


Prayer:
Open my mind to discern good and evil.
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 09:57:21 AM »

May 3, 2012


Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE

   
“Be gone from me, Satan; you are to worship and serve God alone!”
~ Matthew 4:10
http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4:10&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV


The third level of the spiral of violence, “the devil,” will become
absolutely necessary for survival once you have agreed to worship the
foundational system. Devils refuse to be critiqued as devils. For most
people, whatever system feeds and protects them, or panders to their
superiority, is above criticism and, therefore, “good.” That is all
they have. They do not have their citizenship elsewhere, as Paul says
(Philippians 3:20 [1]), or their heart is not yet resting in the Reign of
God.

[1]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+3:20&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV

For most people, their only citizenship is here, and this is the
citizenship they are defending. Not “all of God's people,” but just
“it so happens it is my people that God most cares about.” Whatever
status quo benefits them is the full and final good. Pollsters know this
is the way most people will vote. How foolish and how blind this is.
Jesus showed no undue loyalty to his religion or to his country but
radically critiqued both of them whenever they demanded to be
“worshipped.” I challenge you to find one “patriotic” statement
from Jesus (the one that most people wrongly use about “giving to
Caesar” (Mark 12:17 [2]) is actually a total dismissal of Caesar's rights
in comparison to God's rights).

Prayer:
Open my mind to discern good and evil.
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 10:34:13 AM »

For most people, their only citizenship is here, and this is the
citizenship they are defending. Not “all of God's people,” but just
“it so happens it is my people that God most cares about.” Whatever
status quo benefits them is the full and final good. Pollsters know this
is the way most people will vote. How foolish and how blind this is.



Exactly.


Jesus showed no undue loyalty to his religion or to his country but
radically critiqued both of them whenever they demanded to be
“worshipped.” I challenge you to find one “patriotic” statement
from Jesus (the one that most people wrongly use about “giving to
Caesar” (Mark 12:17 [2]) is actually a total dismissal of Caesar's rights
in comparison to God's rights).


Wow.  If I could get one point across to just about any group of Catholics, and Christians for that matter, it would be this.

Jesus was NOT obedient to His religion -- even when people were watching, and Jesus is NOT interested in telling us how to vote.  I had a recent discussion with one of the "Five Absolutes" people and they obviously think the government is just the military branch of the Church.

I like that.  "the government is NOT the military branch of the Church."

Alan
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 06:46:03 AM »

For most people, whatever system feeds and protects them, or panders to their
superiority, is above criticism and, therefore, “good.”


This ties right in with what you're saying Alan. Especially the part about "pandering to their superiority." We see that all the time with the group who feels that everything is about externals and how you look--actually proudly admitting that they believe that trumps forming your heart to love God! And of course the "five absolutes" people are all about making sure those who aren't as worthy as them, thus inferior, are excluded and making sure we know that God agrees with them. That clearly goes back to Richard's brilliant statement  that you know you've remade God in your image when God hates the same people you do.

It's true in both government and religious life that the "authorities" will pander to what people want to believe to keep things under their control.
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This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 09:25:12 AM »


Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE


When good things can also be recognized as bad things, then you have the
spiritual gift of discernment. This will also allow you to see that many
things which are good for you are also bad things for other people, the
animals, or the earth. It forces you beyond “either/or” thinking
toward “both/and,” or non-dual, thinking. Once you have learned to
discern the disguised nature of evil, you will be able to recognize that
both perfection and imperfection are everywhere—everything is broken
and fallen: weak and poor, you and me, your marriage, your children,
and, yes, America and the Church, too.

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus says. “God alone is good!”
(Mark 10:18 [1]). If Jesus can say this about himself, then we can surely
say it concerning just about everything. He might have given you the
greatest recipe for happiness for the rest of your life in that
statement. Now you can start accepting things in their broken, faulty
state. You will not be so constantly disappointed, and think people have
let you down because they are not perfect. Nor do you have to wait for
things to be perfect to fall in love with them.

Prayer:
Open my mind to discern good and evil.
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 09:30:48 AM »

This ties right in with what you're saying Alan. Especially the part about "pandering to their superiority." We see that all the time with the group who feels that everything is about externals and how you look--actually proudly admitting that they believe that trumps forming your heart to love God! And of course the "five absolutes" people are all about making sure those who aren't as worthy as them, thus inferior, are excluded and making sure we know that God agrees with them. That clearly goes back to Richard's brilliant statement  that you know you've remade God in your image when God hates the same people you do.

It's true in both government and religious life that the "authorities" will pander to what people want to believe to keep things under their control.


Yes, this does point to what I have been saying, and I think today's meditation hits it even closer.

But that statement about making God in own image, I attributed to an Anne Lamott, author, Grace (Eventually) and may have mixed it up with Rohr, but I saw it at the beginning of that movie Lord, Save Us From Your Followers.

Alan

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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 12:19:01 PM »


But that statement about making God in own image, I attributed to an Anne Lamott, author, Grace (Eventually) and may have mixed it up with Rohr, but I saw it at the beginning of that movie Lord, Save Us From Your Followers.

Alan



You're right that it is her statement. I had simply seen it most recently in one of Richard's meditations. I should not have attributed it to him however. Mea culpa!
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This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.--Robert Bellarmine
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2012, 06:03:40 AM »

May 5, 2012

Richard's Daily Meditations

THE SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE


With the “gift of discernment of spirits” (1 Corinthians 12:10 [1]) you
can understand on a whole new level what we mean when we say “God
saves you,” because now you see with wisdom and truth. It does not
mean this or that specific action will get you to heaven. It means that
when “your eye is single (or ‘sound’), your whole body will be
filled with light” (Luke 11:34 [2]). When you see things non-dually, in
their wholeness, and do not split between the false "totally good" and
“totally bad,” you will grow up spiritually and begin to live
honestly and wisely in this world.

[1]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+12:10&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV

[2]: http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+11:34&version=NIV;MSG;DRA;KJV

I hope that this short introduction to the three sources of evil as the
spiral of violence—1) the world's agreed-upon systems, 2) individual
sin, and 3) the demonic legitimization of oppressive and destructive
power—can be a primary tool for the rest of your life, to help you
discern what is truly good and what is often evil. And remember, the
proper sequencing is important: if you nip the disguise of evil in the
first stage, the next two largely lose most of their power to fool you.

Prayer:
Open my mind to discern good and evil.
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